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American Alaunt

does anybody have any info on this breed? what breed was use in the creation of this dog. their temperament,size,guarding abilty etc...... i read somewhere that they are bred by a guy name donald stocks and that he will be setting up a website in the near future. some photos will be very much wellcome. thanks in advance troy
the site will be up soon :wink: :wink:
http://elpresa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25886&highlight=american+alaunt From this topic that I started on another forum, I heard it was a breed created by the guy that used to run Tiger Guard kennels! Dont knoe much more!
I check briefly the site and look like presas for me.In my opinion other "bloodline" of a particular breeder transform in other "new" breed.
well from hear say and hear say alone, I believe presa's are the foundation of this "new" breed. If any of the info I gained is remotely true then I would stay away from this dog. It doesnt have a standard because its too new also the word on the guy is when he was breeding "pure" presas and "pure" DDB's and "pure"neos all the dogs where coming out looking like the next breed and none of the parents were health tested. So that draws TRIPLE red flags for me and should for anyone else!

[quote=troy]does anybody have any info on this breed? what breed was use in the creation of this dog. their temperament,size,guarding abilty etc...... i read somewhere that they are bred by a guy name donald stocks and that he will be setting up a website in the near future. some photos will be very much wellcome. thanks in advance troy[/quote]

Donalds Dogs will have a website up shortly. to quickly answer some of your questions: size of the males run between 25-27 at the whithers 110 - 140lbs with the majority in the 115-120lb range Females run 100 - 120 with the majority running approx 105-110. Temperment Wise, the dogs do not like people outside their family, If heavily socialized they will accept those that you allow on your property. They are extremely confident dogs, and are in my opinion the best performance mastiffs out there. Donald Has been breeding his line since the late 80's with a clear direction in 91-92. He culled heavy to get rid of the dogs not up to his standard. His dogs are typey and The blends of dogs used were a variety of Mastiff's and bull and terrier dogs. He is in his 9th generation, and his dogs are getting better. Due to the time and effort put into his program, the percentages and breeds wil not be disclosed publicly.

I have owned Cane Corso's and have been around Titled Presa's and I like these dogs better overall, and will be getting a pup or 2 this year. They are not for everyone as you should have big protective dog experience. Here is a link to pictures: http://authorityfigga.proboards83.com/index.cgi?board=workingbandogs&action=display&thread=598 Unfortunately the pictures do not do justice to how these dogs look in person. A website is in the works, so it will be up soon. Donald Stocks dogs have no affliation with any other "American Alaunt" breeders currently on the web.

Thanks for your interest, AaronD First time post here, but I post frequently on Bandog Banter and 13th Legion dog Forums

mastin0, thanks man. i am also a member of 13th legion, but i do not post there. will you do me a favour. when the site comes up please let me know. btw thanks for the info best of luck always troy

[quote=mastin0"][quote="troy]does anybody have any info on this breed? what breed was use in the creation of this dog. their temperament,size,guarding abilty etc...... i read somewhere that they are bred by a guy name donald stocks and that he will be setting up a website in the near future. some photos will be very much wellcome. thanks in advance troy[/quote]

Donalds Dogs will have a website up shortly. to quickly answer some of your questions: size of the males run between 25-27 at the whithers 110 - 140lbs with the majority in the 115-120lb range Females run 100 - 120 with the majority running approx 105-110. Temperment Wise, the dogs do not like people outside their family, If heavily socialized they will accept those that you allow on your property. They are extremely confident dogs, and are in my opinion the best performance mastiffs out there. Donald Has been breeding his line since the late 80's with a clear direction in 91-92. He culled heavy to get rid of the dogs not up to his standard. His dogs are typey and The blends of dogs used were a variety of Mastiff's and bull and terrier dogs. He is in his 9th generation, and his dogs are getting better. Due to the time and effort put into his program, the percentages and breeds wil not be disclosed publicly. I have owned Cane Corso's and have been around Titled Presa's and I like these dogs better overall, and will be getting a pup or 2 this year. They are not for everyone as you should have big protective dog experience.

Here is a link to pictures: http://authorityfigga.proboards83.com/index.cgi?board=workingbandogs&action=display&thread=598 Unfortunately the pictures do not do justice to how these dogs look in person. A website is in the works, so it will be up soon. Donald Stocks dogs have no affliation with any other "American Alaunt" breeders currently on the web.

Thanks for your interest, AaronD First time post here, but I post frequently on Bandog Banter and 13th Legion dog Forums[/quote]

Im asking a question just a question not to offend anyone. But would any person in their right mind buy a recreation of a dog without knowing what has been put into the making? It doesnt make sense for me to say "Here you go Donald take this $1200 and give me a mixed dog, that I maybe can get for $150 adoption fee from the city pound" :idea:

[blockquote] Im asking a question just a question not to offend anyone. But would any person in their right mind buy a recreation of a dog without knowing what has been put into the making? It doesnt make sense for me to say "Here you go Donald take this $1200 and give me a mixed dog, that I maybe can get for $150 adoption fee from the city pound" :idea:[/blockquote]

Tell me how knowledge of the dogs that are put into any program are going to help you decide whether or not the dogs being produced are any good. The best thing to do when looking at performance mastiffs is go test the parents. That is the only reason I am getting an alaunt is the fact I met up with Donald and tested his dogs personally. I like what he is producing. I have seen titled dogs of different breeds (performance mastiffs included) with nice pedigrees, and I wouldn't put them on my yard. You are not going to get 9th generation Alaunts from the pound. These aren't F1's.

Flip it around and ask yourself if you spent the last 20 years refining a breed, would you be so open to let everyone know your formula, and percentages so that someone could shortcut and copy your hard work? Maybe you would, I know I wouldn't. I find it funny that If I had posted a 3 generation pedigree of a Presa or Cane Corso, it probably wouldn't be questioned what was behind it, since people accept it as a "pure" even though they are more scatterbred than most think. I didn't post to convince anyone this is the dog for them. Just trying to clear up any misunderstandings about the Stocks Alaunt, and that is different from the other Alaunt programs out there.

Have a good day :D

mastin0 you said donald's dogs have no affiliation to other american alaunt breeders. i just want to see photos of other breeders dogs and info on their dogs also. that way it would be better to compare their work against donald's work. if you have any other breeders website please share. please note that the only alaunt photo i have seen is the ones on 13th legion regards troy

[quote=troy]mastin0 you said donald's dogs have no affiliation to other american alaunt breeders. i just want to see photos of other breeders dogs and info on their dogs also. that way it would be better to compare their work against donald's work. if you have any other breeders website please share. please note that the only alaunt photo i have seen is the ones on 13th legion regards troy[/quote]

[EDIT] Due to the response below from Presadam: I want to make clear I do not endorse the breeders below and never did, I was just giving information on those that have taken up the American Alaunt name regardless of quality of said such dogs. Because of Tim using the American Alaunt name after seeing Donalds dogs posted on the Net, the future name of Donald's dogs will be released when the website launches. This will distinctly seperate his dogs from others with their own programs.

[quote="mastin0"][blockquote] Im asking a question just a question not to offend anyone. But would any person in their right mind buy a recreation of a dog without knowing what has been put into the making? It doesnt make sense for me to say "Here you go Donald take this $1200 and give me a mixed dog, that I maybe can get for $150 adoption fee from the city pound" :idea:[/blockquote]

Tell me how knowledge of the dogs that are put into any program are going to help you decide whether or not the dogs being produced are any good. The best thing to do when looking at performance mastiffs is go test the parents. That is the only reason I am getting an alaunt is the fact I met up with Donald and tested his dogs personally. I like what he is producing. I have seen titled dogs of different breeds (performance mastiffs included) with nice pedigrees, and I wouldn't put them on my yard. You are not going to get 9th generation Alaunts from the pound. These aren't F1's. Flip it around and ask yourself if you spent the last 20 years refining a breed, would you be so open to let everyone know your formula, and percentages so that someone could shortcut and copy your hard work? Maybe you would, I know I wouldn't. I find it funny that If I had posted a 3 generation pedigree of a Presa or Cane Corso, it probably wouldn't be questioned what was behind it, since people accept it as a "pure" even though they are more scatterbred than most think. I didn't post to convince anyone this is the dog for them. Just trying to clear up any misunderstandings about the Stocks Alaunt, and that is different from the other Alaunt programs out there. Have a good day :D[/quote]

Percentage wise is not important but to me, I have dogs that I like and dogs that I dont like so if I dont like neos, why would I want a dog with neo. Is all about personal preference, Im not saying I dont like neos but we all have preferences when it coes to our dogs. like some people feel like cane corso's or too snappy and nervy so would not perfer a dog with corso in it. Thats what makes the make-up of a dog important to me, I cant speak for anyone beside me! As far as 3 generations of a presa most enthusiast would like to see up to 5 generations. But 3 generations is better than someone saying I have 9 genereations on this dog but you cant see it. I want to know what dog was wat breed or mix, and what did that breed bring into the current breed! Im not saying Donald Stock doesnt have good dogs or anything like that just would like to know what is in it and why?

To which the gentleman can answer with: "Mind your own business". Do you go around and ask presa or corso breeders which breeds were used in their dogs? You either like the dogs or you dont, period. Im sure the man isnt looking to be peddling dogs...

OK LOOK people, Tim (TG) has not started any breed, despite what he put on his website. All that is is that he finally came up with a name- that others apparently have also- to call the obvious mixes that result in his yard. Tim has NEVER been on target in the presa community. His dogs came down from Arbaco (the infamous blue) and Bullrog (the bulldog looking pseudopresa) and his hard head wouldn't allow any other information we tried to teach him to sink in... I ran into Tim regularly in the late 90's at local rare breed shows. At first he would show, but then as his dogs got weirder and weirder, and got dumped..he would just show up to talk.

About 11 years ago, myself and my friend (who started the DCCA) sat down to lunch with Tim and his brother, with a copy of El Presa Canario by Manuel Martin Bethencourt (legendary canarian breeder, and specialist judge) and tried to educate Tim about what the breed ACTUALLY was. Tim's response was "well, if that's a presa, then I don't want it.." at which time his brilliant :roll: brother came up with the idea of "making their OWN breed" and calling it the "Pounsberry presa" :roll:

However, despite this, Tim kept trying in the presa world. He brought several dogs out of blue male Arbaco son SherKahn to one of the DCCA's shows under a canarian judge. One dog was granted paperwork out of 4 dogs he brought, and he has tried to use that for 10 yrs now to justify the rest of his dogs and breedings, while continuing to breed mutts, and call them presas. I guess he finally came up with something to call the obvious mixes, because just a year or so ago, that part on the website that now says "american Alaunt"used to read "exotic mastiffs". If you go to the "breeding and puppies" page you will see he still refers to them as such there. This is "Tiger Guard's Romethius" aka "Romeo"

He was 6 yrs old last year. I knew this dog as a puppy, and went round and round with his owner about what he was. She was sold a "presa canario". Knowing Tim had both pseudopresas and DDB's, I told her he was a mix. She fought tooth and nail that I was wrong. She recently referred to him as a "non standard presa" :roll: when she gave him to a local shelter... But as I said, he was born 6 yrs ago, and sold as a presa...He's a beautiful DOG, but NOT a presa! The only good thing for Tim is that the mixes he was producing finally became en vogue and popular, so he could sell them to idiots who couldn't look any further then the big brawny dog in front of them, and didn't actually ask them to do anything.

So I sure as heck wouldn't include him as a pioneer in any breed. He doesn't have that kind of concentration. He just knows how to put two intact dogs together and make puppies. :wink:

this is a damn nice looking dog

[quote=Teutates]To which the gentleman can answer with: "Mind your own business". Do you go around and ask presa or corso breeders which breeds were used in their dogs? You either like the dogs or you dont, period. Im sure the man isnt looking to be peddling dogs...[/quote]

That is true he can respond mind my own business! But I dont need to as presa breeds and cane corsos breeds are sorta well documented.... I will not buy a car and not know the horse power etc etc... But either way it just makes for good conversation to me, I have the breeds of dogs that Im satisfied with and if I run across an american aluant that I like and I can know the make up of one, maybe one day in the future Ill own one. But my presas are good with me and I am good with them!

[quote="Presadam"]OK LOOK people, Tim (TG) has not started any breed, despite what he put on his website. All that is is that he finally came up with a name- that others apparently have also- to call the obvious mixes that result in his yard. Tim has NEVER been on target in the presa community. His dogs came down from Arbaco (the infamous blue) and Bullrog (the bulldog looking pseudopresa) and his hard head wouldn't allow any other information we tried to teach him to sink in... I ran into Tim regularly in the late 90's at local rare breed shows. At first he would show, but then as his dogs got weirder and weirder, and got dumped..he would just show up to talk. About 11 years ago, myself and my friend (who started the DCCA) sat down to lunch with Tim and his brother, with a copy of El Presa Canario by Manuel Martin Bethencourt (legendary canarian breeder, and specialist judge) and tried to educate Tim about what the breed ACTUALLY was. Tim's response was "well, if that's a presa, then I don't want it.." at which time his brilliant :roll: brother came up with the idea of "making their OWN breed" and calling it the "Pounsberry presa" :roll: However, despite this, Tim kept trying in the presa world. He brought several dogs out of blue male Arbaco son SherKahn to one of the DCCA's shows under a canarian judge. One dog was granted paperwork out of 4 dogs he brought, and he has tried to use that for 10 yrs now to justify the rest of his dogs and breedings, while continuing to breed mutts, and call them presas. I guess he finally came up with something to call the obvious mixes, because just a year or so ago, that part on the website that now says "american Alaunt"used to read "exotic mastiffs". If you go to the "breeding and puppies" page you will see he still refers to them as such there. This is "Tiger Guard's Romethius" aka "Romeo" He was 6 yrs old last year. I knew this dog as a puppy, and went round and round with his owner about what he was. She was sold a "presa canario". Knowing Tim had both pseudopresas and DDB's, I told her he was a mix. She fought tooth and nail that I was wrong. She recently referred to him as a "non standard presa" :roll: when she gave him to a local shelter... But as I said, he was born 6 yrs ago, and sold as a presa...He's a beautiful DOG, but NOT a presa! The only good thing for Tim is that the mixes he was producing finally became en vogue and popular, so he could sell them to idiots who couldn't look any further then the big brawny dog in front of them, and didn't actually ask them to do anything. So I sure as heck wouldn't include him as a pioneer in any breed. He doesn't have that kind of concentration. He just knows how to put two intact dogs together and make puppies. :wink:[/quote]

Once again you have not failed me. Can we change your name to the"Professor"? lol good read!

nice dog, nice picture...Wookiebush
[quote1264224610=wookiebush] this is a damn nice looking dog [/quote1264224610] Thats my dog and she is one of Donald Stock's Alaunts.
marceeS, can you share some more photos of your dog. especially facial wise. thanks
I like the markings, and am also curious to see more pictures.
Wookiebush wrote: Nice looking dog. Nice looking dog indeed! The picture looks like a painting.
Here are the pictures![br][link={e_FILE}public/1264375434_18091_FT56279_p1000223.jpg][img:width=500&height=375]{e_FILE}public/1264375434_18091_FT56279_p1000223_.jpg">[/link][br][br][link={e_FILE}public/1264375434_18091_FT56279_100_1819.jpg][img:width=500&height=350]{e_FILE}public/1264375434_18091_FT56279_100_1819_.jpg">[/link][br][br][link={e_FILE}public/1264375434_18091_FT56279_p1010004.jpg][img:width=500&height=667]{e_FILE}public/1264375434_18091_FT56279_p1010004_.jpg">[/link][br][br][link={e_FILE}public/1264375434_18091_FT56279_p1000113.jpg][img:width=500&height=637]{e_FILE}public/1264375434_18091_FT56279_p1000113_.jpg">[/link][br]
Great pictures...can you comment on drive, temperment, intelligence? It certainly looks like a capable dog, but whats the other half like?
Is this the Tim Poundsberry from DC area? He tried years ago to get a neo from me. Glad now I didn't. Geese what a small world.
Well she has a great temperment pretty easy going and actually sleeps alot of the time. We have a Yorkie and she lets him boss her around. She loves people but watches the house really good when we aren't home. She is pretty smart and willing to learn (for food) but can be stuborn! Over all I really love the breed, she has such a funny and unique personality!
[quote1274308496=Presadam] This is "Tiger Guard's Romethius" aka "Romeo" He was 6 yrs old last year. I knew this dog as a puppy, and went round and round with his owner about what he was. She was sold a "presa canario". Knowing Tim had both pseudopresas and DDB's, I told her he was a mix. She fought tooth and nail that I was wrong. She recently referred to him as a "non standard presa" :roll: when she gave him to a local shelter... But as I said, he was born 6 yrs ago, and sold as a presa...He's a beautiful DOG, but NOT a presa! [/quote1274308496] yeah, could be a presa x dogue de bordeaux, although the head is not really big.
Riiiiight, because head size is directly related to breeds, not necessarily quality of breeding, lol. Look to the features. That is no Presa. Just like the fabricated Corsi, there are Presas as such.
[quote1274319036=Igmuska] Riiiiight, because head size is directly related to breeds, not necessarily quality of breeding, lol. Look to the features. That is no Presa. Just like the fabricated Corsi, there are Presas as such. [/quote1274319036] i haven´t said it is a presa, i said it could be a dogue de bordeaux x presa.
I was referring to your "size" statement. I did not say you said it was a Presa, read again. I was doubting ANY real Presa in this dog. About as much real Corso is in a lot of American Corsi.
[quote1274325930=Igmuska] I was referring to your "size" statement. I did not say you said it was a Presa, read again. I was doubting ANY real Presa in this dog. About as much real Corso is in a lot of American Corsi. [/quote1274325930] yeah i know the headsize is not "absolutely" related to a breed. i have seen ddb with quite small heads and some others with huge heads. so maybe there isn´t presa at all in this dog. anyway my first thought was "presa x dogue de bordeaux" and my second thought was "small head" for this cross. great variation in these so-called "american alaunts" but also no surprise since they are bandogs with a different make-up depending on the breeder. i still have this dog in my mind. it is one of donalds dogs.
Again, you missed what I was commenting on and took it too personally, lol. Reread the background of the red dog and his "breeder" and then reread my comments. Donald's Alaunts are probably the most consistent of the bunch. He has a type and though there is variation, he breeds towards a common type and "look." He also has multigenerational stock, no lies or passing them off as another breed or some ancient creation. IMO, as far as "Alaunt" programs, he is the one to watch.
no betsie, i haven´t taken anything personally, as nothing you said was unfriendly, but i admit i haven´t read the thread. i have just seen the dog and "presa x ddb" came into my mind with being sure about the ddb, but not so sure about the presa. ;) take care andreas
Personally as in you missed my reference and automatically applied it to you and your statement, not offended... ;)

Everyone can stop debating about on my beloved dog Romethius. Everything that's been posted breaks my heart! He was never shown so what does anyone have to gain by posting your nasty opinions? He was also never bred. I was proud to own him and adored him until the end. In 2009 he was given to a farm in Virginia when I became homeless. He was 8 then and I stayed in contact with his then, new family. So, PresaDam, he was not abandoned at some local shelter like you posted. Please don't use his image to further your negative tyrants about his breeder. Good day -IkonAngel

there is a aluant group on facebook with some really nice dogs in there you might want to look at.