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English Mastiff vs Saint Bernard
 
Quote · 1106 days ago · 0 people like this ·
 
English Mastiff vs Saint Bernard cynology? For me it seems like there is no real difference between an English Mastiff and a Saint Bernard considering the build. U can easily find examples of both breeds that r 80cm, equal in weight etc. My question is, if there is any real difference in the build or if it is just the same. For me it is easy to see the difference between a Neo and an English Mastiff, or between an Irish Wolfhound and a Great Dane, or a Rottweiler and Boerboel, but between a Saint Bernard and an English Mastiff I only can see which breed it is because of the nicer colour of the Saint Bernard and the longer coat. What r the aspects where both differ in their build? Thank U for answers! Does any of both breeds have a better build on average?
Quote · 1106 days ago · 0 people like this ·
 
often they are indeed very similar, however in this chart i can see enough differences between both and this individual of St. Bernard has the better and more balanced build, than the EM in the same chart!
Quote · 1106 days ago · 0 people like this ·
 
That's an unusually nice st bernard and a pretty crappy EM. They do look fairly similar, and they're somewhat closely related. The st bernard descends from the "alpine mastiff", and when you're talking about those times from when the alpine mastiff was about, you're not really talking about breeds. Instead "mastiff types" existed across europe, and the ones up in the alps were naturally a bit hairy. So yeah, at this stage st bernards and ems really were pretty much the same dog- mastiffs. Since then the st bernard has undergone adapting to becoming a dairy draft dog, and then later a search and rescue dog. Meanwhile the english mastiff stayed on as a big-game subjugation dog for a while, was involved in some bloodsports, and then later became a guard dog, and later became an abominable show dog and was crossed with other breeds, etc. So basically yeah, they have the same background up to a point where they deviated ways. Looks aren't everything though, they are not especially closely related, not more so than neos are related to ems for example, no. In fact, genetically ems are closer related to bulldogs, boxers and even terriers than they are to st bernards. No I'm not going crazy, although I wouldn't blame you for thinking I am. Here is a dog family tree, based on the canine genome. In other words it's not even debatable. What it shows is that terriers and bullbreeds arose after the split between the st bernard and the EM, and these bullbreeds and terriers were largely influenced by the em's ancestors. The EM and st bernard stayed looking fairly similar after they split, but the em has much more closely related cousins which look nothing like him.
Quote · 1106 days ago · 0 people like this ·
 
LOL, no I don't think U r crazy. I know that the EM is more related with other dogs. Bullmastiffs come to my mind. Boxers make sense too, they are based on Bullenbeisser. Why do U think that Saint Bernards and English Mastiffs stayed almost the same in looks, although they were used for different things? Coming back to my question. What r the differences in their build and where do I have to look at? Bye and thank U. ;)
Quote · 1106 days ago · 0 people like this ·
 
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Quote · 1106 days ago · 0 people like this ·
 
[quote1315625878=Wolf] The primary ancestor of the Saint Bernard [u]IS[/u] the English Mastiff. All that alpine crap was added onto a solid British guard dog. The monk's rescue dog B.S. and softening the breed came long after that, but it wasn't achieved through crossbreeding solely, instead it was done primarily through selection for softer personalities within the same guard dog stock. That's why the Saint is still very much the same animal as the English Mastiff was in the past genetically and as soft as they're bred, dogs of this breed are still the bee's knees for adding into whatever mountain dog "fighting" population in order to make dogs worth feeding. The St.Bernard is the founding block of many of these fancy "ancient" breeds, in fact. Like a Pit, a li'l Barry goes a long way. And it's not just the furcharkas that benefited from Beethoven, the good old bulldogges/bandogges class owes a bit to his concertos as well. Cool Info and way more than I expected. Already last week somebody mentioned Beethoven has a lot to add as cross and that they r also part of the Ambull. Now I know why the EM and Saint B. Look so similar. Hey is there any cross that is more like than others to work well with the Saint B. ? [/quote1315625878]
Quote · 1106 days ago · 0 people like this ·
 
[quote1315626346=Wolf] The primary ancestor of the Saint Bernard [u]IS[/u] the English Mastiff. All that alpine crap was added onto a solid British guard dog. The monk's rescue dog B.S. and softening the breed came long after that, but it wasn't achieved through crossbreeding solely, instead it was done primarily through selection for softer personalities within the same guard dog stock. That's why the Saint is still very much the same animal as the English Mastiff was in the past genetically and as soft as they're bred, dogs of this breed are still the bee's knees for adding into whatever mountain dog "fighting" population in order to make dogs worth feeding. The St.Bernard is the founding block of many of these fancy "ancient" breeds, in fact. Like a Pit, a li'l Barry goes a long way. And it's not just the furcharkas that benefited from Beethoven, the good old bulldogges/bandogges class owes a bit to his concertos as well. [/quote1315626346] I just wanted to thank U, but for same reasons it doesn't work. And sorry I messed up your text with the quote. LOL my brother visited me and I had too much red wine.
Quote · 1102 days ago · 0 people like this ·
 
It has been answered why both breed r very similar, but not yet what r the differences concerning the build. I am interested in your opinions ladies and gentlemen.
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