• HOWEDY crnosrce1 a.k.a. mike, [quote=crnosrce1"][quote="AmazingPoopyDouche]ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?[/quote] Umm... can we get rid of this hot aired biggot already?? First he comes on here with his 3 mile long thread that says NOTHING...[/quote] EMBARRASSING, AIN'T HE, mikey? EFFECTIVE DOG TRAININ AIN'T LUCK. IT'S SCIENCE AT ITS BEAST. Evidently you DIDN'T LIKE the SCIENCE of Pavlov, Skinner, Corson, von Hilsheimer, Neill, Lorenz, Whaler, Szryinsky, Lovas, et. al., that I CITED? "BIGGOT", mikey? Oh, you mean on accHOWENTA I FEAR and HATE dog abusin NAZI COWARDS who HURT, INTIMIDATE an MURDER dogs they FEAR, and when CHALLENGED by a REAL dog behavior EXXXPERT wielding the SCIENCE of BEHAVIOR, the dog abusin cowards run an hide behind their KILLFILES, mikey, instead of DEFENDING THEMSELVES by alphalpha rolling chokin an shockin those who CHALLENGE their ABUSES like HOWE they TEACH DUMMIES to do to innocent defenseless dumb critters, mikey?? [quote="crnosrce1"][ Then he starts in on Frank and Parker on their methods...[/quote] I think what you're goin through is what woolfie referred to as FIP *(fear imprint period). Woolfie sez: "I've known people who've gotten rid of their dogs because of it, because they didn't realize (or believe) that if handled properly and in accordance to the severity of the F.I.P. the dog would get over its momentary fears and continue being a fine dog afterwards. I've also known folks who've made things worse and damaged their dogs for good by doing the wrong things when their dogs were going through one of their Fear Imprint Periods, such as getting frustrated and yelling, sometimes physically correcting them." HOWEver, I DISAGREE. In my OPINION, this is simply a case of "WEAK NERVES". Weak nerves are CAUSED BY self-professed dog trainers associating with other weak nerved self-professed dog trainers *(see allelomimetic behavior) who LIKE to JERK CHOKE BRIBE CRATE INTIMIDATE an SHOCK dogs when their EXXXPERT METHODS FAIL. WEAK NERVE SYNDROME is compHOWENDED by REAL dog trainers who UNDERSTAND the SCIENCE of BEHAVIOR but ARE NOT WILLING to *(or are AFRIAD of social isolation from ordinary DUMMIES) who's SENSIBILITIES migh be OFFENDED, to temporarily DISREGARD their own SCIENCE and philosophy of POLITENESS and "political correctness" of non violent methods long enough to CORRECT the PATHJETICself important dog abusin NAZI cowards using THEIR OWN METHODS: alphalpha rolling them with EXXXPERT timing / shoving their fingers down their throats to gently choke them HOWETA mouthing *(if they're young pups) and jerking and choking them on pronged spikedpinch choke collars an shocking them if they're old enough to withstand EFFECTIVE CORRECTIONS. [quote="crnosrce1"][AND THEN, the icing on the cake, calls the rest of THIS forum, YOUR forum Gary, Dummies....[/quote] "If the shoe fits", mikey. The QUESTION should be, does this forum want "BALANCED TRAINERS" who RELY on PAIN FEAR FORCE BRIBERY INTIMIDATION an MURDERIN innocent defenseless dumb critters when their EXXXPERTEASE FAILS THEM and THEN they BLAME THE DOG for bein "HARD WIRED WRONG"? THAT'S INSANE, mikey. It's DOG TRAINERS who ABUSE dogs that CAUSE temperament and behavior problems resuling in BREED SPECIFIC LEGISLATION / RACISM. It's DOG TRAINERS who MURDER dogs they FEAR, mikey. OR does this forum CARE MORE abHOWET EFFECTIVE NON PHYSICAL SCIENTIFIC methods which achieve 100% CONSISTENT NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS? The CHOICE is YOURS. [quote="crnosrce1"][Is this enough proof that this person is not needed, and should not be welcome here??[/quote] Hmmm. And *I* was called a NAZI for jammin SCIENCE down your throats? [quote="crnosrce1"][ OR, will we have to lose 15 more members to keep this one, long posting, no spelling wind bag?[/quote] Well mikey, did platzie put you up to this?? Doesn't he have a mommy to defend him? As I told platzie: DEFEND YOURSELF or RUN HOME CRYIN to your mommy an tell her The Amazing Puppy Wizard is PICKIN ON YOU. Here's the SCIENCE YOU FEAR: In the followin SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH STUDY you may substitute pronged spiked pinch or slip choke collars for shock and add PUNISHMENT, SCOLDING, CRATING, and witholding rewards, attention, and affection: Psychological Effects At issue is the question, --Do electronic training devices elicit psychological responses? "This section cites several research studies in which the psychological impact of the use of electronic training devices was analyzed. It is difficult, at best, for anyone to determine the full psychological effect of these devices or training methods until we can agree on exactly what constitutes a stress signal in a domestic dog. Not only do none of the researchers agree on what it is, but it varies from dog to dog. It is even more difficult for humans to determine the full effect of shock on a dog (or any animal) due to the animal's hard-wired need to hide pain in order to survive in the wild. Training dogs with the help of the shock collar: Short and long term behavioral effects. (Schilder, M. & van der Borga, J. (2004). Applied Animal Behavior Science, 85, 319-334). The goal of this study was to determine the behavioral changes in dogs during training using electronic training collars. Thirty-two dogs were divided into two groups, each receiving both general obedience and protection training. One group was trained with shock collars and the other group without shock collars. The dogs trained with the shock collars displayed signs of stress: lowering of body posture, high-pitched yelps, barks and squeals, avoidance, redirected aggression, and tongue flicking. It was also noted by the authors that, even during play and relaxed walking, the group of dogs trained with shock collars continued to show signs of stress while in the company of their handler. The authors concluded that shock-collar training is stressful; receiving shocks is a painful experience to dogs; and the shock group of dogs evidently learned that the presence of their owner (or his commands) announced the reception of shocks, even outside of the normal training context. They suggest that the welfare of these shocked dogs is at stake, at least in the presence of their owners. This study has come under considerable fire because the experience of the handlers and dogs is not clear, and the level of shock is not stated. With that said, it does suggest that dogs are stressed by the experience of being shocked during training. --------------------- "Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING THEORY model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT. Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected reward not received is experienced as a punishment and can produce extensive and persistent aggression (Azrin et al, 1966)." IOW, emotions, not outside rewards, are what reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov: "Motivation Of The Resistance To Coercion "-- PAVLOV "Reflexes of purpose and freedom" in the comparative physiology of higher nervous activity, Institute of Higher Nervous Activity and Neurophysiology, Academy of Sciences, Moscow: The most complex unconditioned "reflexes of aim and freedom," discovered by I.P. Pavlov, are compared with the "competence drive" and the "motivation of the resistance to coercion," respectively, described by contemporary ethologists. On the basis of the unconditioned "reflex of purpose," conditioned reflexes were developed in which positive emotions arising in connection with the perfection of a skill, irrespective of its pragmatic significance at a given moment, serve as the reinforcement. The unconditioned "reflex of freedom" is regarded as a phylogenetic precursor of the will, and its acute extinction as the physiological mechanism of hypnosis. It was demonstrated experimentally that the appearance of the state of "animal hypnosis" (immobilization catatonia) in rabbits is accompanied by the predominance of electrical activity and heat production in the right hemisphere, i.e., by symptoms which are found in hypnosis in man. Simonov PV Publication Types:
    • Review
    • Review, tutorial
    PMID: 2215892, UI: 91015681 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=2215892&am p;form=6&db=m&Dopt=bNeurosciBehavPhysiol1990May-Jun; 20(3):230-5 "...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual change of these three fundamental processes -- excitation, inhibition and disinhibition," Ivan P. Pavlov Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At UofOH, That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC. Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific Management Of Doggies. "All animals learn best through play," Lorenz. "The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al (1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment procedure developing imitative speech in two severly disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty- six days the boys are reported to have been learning new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS were moved to a delayed contingency the behavior and learning immediately deteriorated. Programs utilizing the "contingencies of reinforcement model" proposed by Skinner (1963) are no more well established in research than the various dynamic therapists." Research in four areas : 1) direct evaluation of programmed systems for learning; 2) reinforcement; 3) cognitive dissonance; and 4) motivation, MOST SURELY DEMOLISH the claims of operant programers." "It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in deviant behavior of children can be achieved through brief, simple educative routines with their mothers which modify the mother's social behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some clinics have reported ELIMINATION of the need for child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child (Szrynski 1965). A large number of cases improved sufficiently after preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment of children was required, and almost ALL cases SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy. Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)." A. S. Neill, The Famous Founder of The Summerhill School, Used To Cure Delinquent Children Way Back In The 1950's By Paying Them For Every Time They Wet The Bed Or Broke A Pane Of Glass And Their Behaviour Would Stop, - As If By MAGICK! The Embry Study: "While some may find it strange that reprimands might increase the chances of a child going into the street, the literature on the experimental analysis of behavior is replete with examples of how "attention to inappropriate behavior" increases the chances of more inappropriate behavior. Thus, suggestions to parents that they talk to or reason with their children about dashing into the street will likely to have the opposite impact. Reprimands do not punish unsafe behavior; they reward it." Source: "Reducing the Risk of Pedestrian Accidents to Preschoolers by Parent Training and Symbolic Modeling for Children: An Experimental Analysis in the Natural Environment. Research Report Number 2 of the Safe-Playing Project." B.F. Skinner: Re-evaluation of Punishment Punishment, unfortunately traditionally overused, actually has been proven not effective at long- term behavioral change, and creatures will find other ways of getting what it wants. In "Freedom and the control of men" American Scholar, Winter 1955-56, 25, 47-65. 1956 he states: If we no longer resort to torture in what we call the civilized world, we nevertheless still make extensive use of punitive techniques in both domestic and foreign relations. And apparently for good reasons. Nature if not God has created man in such a way that he can be controlled punitively. People quickly become skillful punishers (if not, thereby, skillful controllers), whereas alternative positive measures are not easily learned. The need for punishment seems to have the support of history, and alternative practices threaten the cherished values of freedom and dignity. Fear involved with punishment causes frustration: with typical results loathing, hostility and apathy. Skinner's teaching on the superiority of posittive reinforcement's benefits for keeping desired behavior have proved very valuable. ---------------------------- Instrumental / Classical / Operant / Conditioning CC / OC / IC / -P +P / +R -R / S R / R S It's ALL The SAME SAME SAME SAME B.S. From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." Subject: The Amazing Jerry's take on psychobabble Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:44 -0400 You might improve the learning of folk who actually live with and train dogs to do useful things if you excluded everyone who uses psychobabble from your lists. I recommend to all of you who wish to taste the flavor of sensible animal behaviorists to read THE MISBEHAVIOR OF ORGANISMS, Breland and Breland. This married pair of psychologists began the long trail of highly trained animals who are symbolized by Shamu eating a mackrel from a girl's hand instead of eating the much more tasty pretty girl who is exactly the size of the natural food of killer whales, seals. Yum! The essay, by the way, is a chapter in B.F. Skinner's summing up book, CUMULATIVE RECORD. They include a sentence which more or less says, "unless you understand the personal history of the particular animal, and the history of this animal's species and group, the developmental history of the animal, you cannot effectively train the animal. Pigs root and hen's scratch, if you try to train hens without scratching or pigs without scratching or pigeons without pecking, you aren't going to have much success. A conditional reflex is one which is learned, the original primitive reflex occurs no matter what the history of the animal, and is hard wired. If you train the animal to respond, say by ringing a bell immediately before turning on a bright light, then you've taught the animal and made his native reflex of pupil constriction conditional upon the ringing of a bell. Thorndyke added some terminology to this kind of training and insisted that when you train the animal to make gross motor responses that this learning is "instrumental", the animal takes action and uses an instrument. The Russian word translated as "conditional" in all other contexts was mistranslated by Pavlov's American translator, Horsley Gannt, as "conditioned" and so American psychology went haring after phantasmagora. The major theorists for the development of the language of operant conditioning are Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and B. F. Skinner. Their approach to behaviorism played a major role in the development of American psychology. They proposed that learning is the result of the application of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs.) Thorndike labeled this type of learning instrumental. Using consequences, he taught kittens to manipulate a latch (e.g., an instrument). Skinner renamed instrumental as "operant" because in this learning, one is "operating" on, and is influenced by, the environment. Where classical conditioning illustrates S-->R learning, operant conditioning is often viewed as R-->S learning since it is the consequence that follows the response that influences whether the response is likely or unlikely to occur again. It is through operant conditioning that voluntary responses are learned. One should note that Russian Psychology did very well without the operant language, and only pettifogging university professors ought to worry about what kind of label we attach to the learning. Pfui! Even Skinner understood this! And please note if you saw the original movie, THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX THERAPY. Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy to a scientific basis. Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite Salter as a source. "...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual change of these three fundamental processes -- excitation, inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat the fish and not the pretty girl?" George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H. Who's Who Honoree since 1983 George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate, Academy of Behavioral Medicine you may find my resume in Who's Who in Science and Technology I have been listed in Who's Who in the S & SE USA since 1982, and in the big books, Who's Who in the USA, WW in the World, WW in Medicine etc, and WW in Science and Technology, since that date. These are the Marquis Publications, the "real" WW, and you can't get yourself into them. -------------------- Why Do You Reward The Dog For Being Bad? Was: Punish Dogs Children SP-HOWESES With PRAISE, Unconditional LOVE, TRUST, And RESPECT Always praise the dog to show him that you affectionally support or love him. Praising the dog has nothing to do with what he has just done, it has to do with your relationship with him. "Good dog" means "I love you, dog". If the dog is anxious, then you make certain that he knows that he is in a safe and trusting environment. You praise and admire him. Correction is the opposite signal, you are my enemy, and this results, quite naturally, in the dog behaving aggresively - why not, you've declared that you are his enemy. Why does paradoxical reward work? The dog defecates on the floor. You come up and say "Good Dog" you love and praise him. THE DOG KNOWS YOU LOVE HIM. The dog defecates on the floor because he is anxious. No wild wolf, jackal, or coyote defecates in his den. If he defecates in his den its because a bear is outside trying to get in and eat him. The dog knows that it is stupid to defecate where he eats or sleeps. Don't you? If the dog feels safe he'll behave as if he is safe, no pooping on the living room floor. Almost all maladaptive behavior is due to fear, anxiety, expectation of disaster. Correct the situation, and the dog behaves fluently like a ..... Dog! Punishment deranges behavior, it is never never never appropriate. Love the dog. Praise is never punishment, praise is like giving a piece of steak. If you give a piece of steak to a dog after he defecates on the floor he'll stop defecating on the floor. Fondly, Dr. Von George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate, Academy of Behavioral Medicine you may find my resume in Who's Who in the S & SE USA since 1982, and in the big books, Who's Who in the USA, WW in the World, WW in Medicine etc, and WW in Science and Technology, since that date. These are the Marquis Publications, the "real" WW, and you can't get yourself into them. GvH -------------------- Here's an SAR trainer of twenty years EXXXPERIENCE: From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca) Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard? Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST > > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said. > > Mike > > Ok Mike which part worked for you? It helped clear problems from my dogs in the field using the can penny distraction technique. Works like a charm. My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie, retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team Leader. Sorry that slipped my mind. I have read volumes of training books and don't know where people get that Jerry copied others work as I have NEVER come across his methods before. I would like to see proof. Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to the way I wanted them but this is backward, you train out the problems leaving what you want left over. Funny part is the second dog who had the same problems as the other didn't need correcting for some of his habits after I cleared it from the first dog. Seemed he learned through osmosis. Nice side benefit there. It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party trainer as they were not performing well. The VAST majority of working dog trainers are agressive in their actions with the dogs. I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I was at my "Whits End" then someone I new turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history. I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual and all have had great results. Starting puppies out on the distraction technique is especially good because they never develop the habit. I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after 2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened in all my days. Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple. Mike ------------- Here's a professional dog trainer of thirty years experience: From: BNTDO...@aol.com To: jho...@bellsouth.net Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 2:22 PM Subject: Update Hi Jerry, Just an update to let you know how things are going. Hunter is doing really great thanks to you and your training manual. I cancelled the appointment with the new vet to get him re-evaluated for aggression. all weekend long I had kids run by the fence to try and make him bark. He didn't! Tonight we are going to PetsMart to work on his dog aggression but even that is going good for him. I have less and less of a problem with him in my vehicle. He doesn't try so hard to protect it from the four wheeled monsters that go by. I think soon I'll be able to leave his window open when we go down the road and he won't try to jump out at the cars that go by. I have shared the manual with several dog owners that I know and even a group of dog trainers. Thank you again. Kay From: "Jerry Howe" To: Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 4:59 PM Subject: Re: Update Have your vet call me if he's interested in behavior. XXX/OOO. Jerry. --------------- From: BNTDO...@aol.com To: jho...@bellsouth.net Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 10:26 PM Subject: Re: THANKS ALISON! - "Owners Should Always Be Given The Cold, Hard Facts: They Should NEVER FEEL GUILTY For Having An Aggressive Dog Euthanized." Dear Jerry, It's Kay here. I don't know who these people are that maligning you and your training manual but tell them from me that it does work. Hunter is just doing so well even the people who advocated putting him down are impressed with him. I even started using it with the neighbor's dog. I went over there to help her cut his nails. She started yelling at him for growling at me. I told her to tell him what a good boy he is instead. Lo and behold he stopped growling and I could do his nails. All 4 feet. My dog Hunter was trained with the old jerk and pull method and my other dog was trained with treats. Hunter has gotten his enthusiasm back for his training and I couldn't be more pleased. He even tried to kiss a child the other day. Major break through. This is the dog that a few months ago tried to eat the kids through the fence. I can now take him in the car with me again without him trying to chase cars through the windshield. So Jerry tell these people that the first rule of dog training is Do No Harm. The 2nd rule is whatever works without breaking the first rule. Aggressive dogs don't need to be put down. Hunter was diagnosed aggressive and he is going to stay alive and by my side where he belongs. Thank you so much. Kay ----------------- From: jho...@bellsouth.net (The Puppy Wizard) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 06:07:52 -0000 Subject: "Your Method Takes Positive Training To The Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All Tainers Who Call Themselves Trainers," Kay Pierce. From: To: Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 5:57 PM Subject: Re: Wits end Training Jerry, I started Hunter on his training using your manual and training method. What a marked difference in just a few hours. I had him in my van and just using the sound with his remote trainer and telling him he's a good dog when he started looking like he was going to bark at a car worked great. He only barked 2 or 3 times. Then I took him to a spot that we had used years ago to train, Jerry I have hope that I can have my happy dog back soon. And not this tense unhappy creature I live with now. He was so happy today. I am looking forward to getting the machine so that he can stay that way. Thank you, Kay Pierce ------------------- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 7:54 PM Subject: Making Progress Hello Jerry, Hunter and I started working the recall and family pack exercise today. On leash and in the house he has a perfect recall. And I think he really started to relax and enjoy himself I swear he was laughing. I had taught him to go to the heel position when he comes to me years ago. And over the past few months I have had to tell him to go there. Today he flew into the heel position each and every time without me saying a word to him about it. He has never bounced like that before. I trained him using conventional methods with a choker and pinch collar. Over the past few days we have been using his regular collar. I can tell that he enjoys it more. As I mentioned before I am a dog trainer and when I trained my latest dog I used all positive reinforcements techniques. When I trained for that I had been amazed at the results. Your method takes positive training to the next level and should really be used by all trainers who call themselves trainers. My Hunter is concentrating on me and not on the treat he thinks he wants. My other dog wants treats before she'll do anything. As soon as I get Hunter straightened out she's next. Thank you so much, Kay Pierce ------------------ From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 6:50 PM Subject: Head Hunter Dear Jerry, Just thought I would write to let you know how well Hunter is doing. He had been trained using the conventional methods for obedience. He had gotten used to a choker and a pinch collar. Alot of pain and a lot of jerking around. I had also tried using positive reinforcement methods that I had been trained in. He was so busy looking for the treat that he didn't really want to work. So I went back to using the pinch collar on him and also a gentle leader when we were in public. Slowly by degrees his behavior got worse and he did deserve his reputation as a vicious dog. The vet had recommended that he be put down. I was in a panic when I found your web site. Thanks! He is now the happy dog that I first started out with 5 years ago. I am a professional trainer and it was distressing to me that I could not help my own dog. I had been told that some dogs don't respond to any kind of training and that a vicious dog can never be trusted again. I disagree! Hunter is a sight hound and now I can take him with me and he doesn't chase cars as much anymore which is one of his main problems. We are working on the dog aggression thing. And I am confident that will be successful too. I also have your BIOSOUND machine and that too is working good. I know of several rescue groups that would benefit from it. This is rather long I know but it comes from the heart. My Head Hunter Green and I have together along time and have been through so much together. Thank you for helping me save his life. Kay Pierce -------------------- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 2:49 PM Subject: Jerry the jerk howe Kay if you only knew what a jerk howe is it's either his way or your wrong no matter what training method you use. In a post re: adopting a shelter dog he stated "fu*k Buster" if you want I can refer you to the post. He's nothing but a blowhard and if he was closer I would pay him a visit. He used your post from July in his rebuttal Bob Garrett From: BNTDO...@aol.com To: Caninesanctu...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 5:29 PM Subject: Re: Jerry the jerk howe I have to strongly disagree that Jerry is a jerk. I am a dog trainer and I have been for almost 30 years. I believe strongly in positive reinforcement. My youngest was trained using treats and praise. My oldest how ever was not trained that way I am ashamed to say. The result a very dangerous dog. He has problems with barrier and dominance aggression. A year ago he put a hole in my leg that took weeks to heal. When the vet and all of my friends advocated putting him down I found Jerry's website. I was looking for a natural way to calm my dog and train him all over again as well. You say Jerry is a jerk well I have talked to him on the phone and consulted him about his training methods. I really grilled him before I even considered using his methods. He loves dogs. Using his methods my Head Hunter is now a very sweet dog. I get kisses instead of growls. When he growls or even looks like he is going to bark I tell him what a good dog he is and right away he shuts up, looks at me like I'm nuts. But doesn't try to eat anyone. I am happy to say that the vet thinks I have him on major drugs. I don't! I still use a muzzle on him when I have to take him to iffy places. But hey, I know he is now a sugar. And the most important thing he is happy again. It's a free country and you are entitled to your opinion. I have mine. Sincerely Kay --------------------- Here's a professional trainer of 33 years experience. "Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For Dealing With This (Destructive Separation Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME The Very First Time' - Marilyn. Subject: To Jerry 1 From: MarilynRammell Date: Tues, Aug 3 1999 3:00 am Email: "MarilynRammell" Hello Jerry, A client of mine asked to say a 'big thank you' to you. They have a 8 month spaniel that they were about to get rid of. In fact they had put her into kennels for a few day while they 'thought it through'. They rang me the day before they were due to collect her. She had wrecked their home - everytime they left her she destroyed something else. The walls, the cabinets, the carpets, table legs, chair legs, - anything and everything. They collected her and brought her to me. I gave them some routine training exercises, and also I wrote out your advice (I will say at this point that I was not sure about it at all, and felt a little embarrassed - it was the advice about the 'toy dog that gets the praise for not making a mess'. Anyway, this was 11 days ago and I heard nothing. Yesterday they turned up at the new Monday evening class. They were absolutely delighted. They told me that after just one attempt, (your toy suggestion) she 'stopped all the destruction'. They were in tear of happiness while telling me. Thank you Jerry. Respectfully, Marilyn ---------------- From: Marilyn Rammell (marilynramm...@hotmail.com) Subject: Re: Separation anxiety (?) help needed! Date: 1999/10/13 Hi Steve, Just want to second Jerry's method for dealing with this - I've suggested it to quite a few clients now and it's worked 'every' time. It sounds a little 'amusing' I agree, but it really works. Two of the occasions it's worked have been when the owners were almost at the point of giving up (one had actually put their dog into kennels for a few days so that they could re-decorate the demolition done by the dog). They rang me while the dog was still in kennels and were not yet decided whether to collect the dog or not. The very first time they tried Jerry's method, it worked. Best of luck, Marilyn Rammell -------------------- "The day may come when the rest of the animal creation may acquire those rights which never could have been withholden from them but by the hand of tyranny. The question is not can they REASON, nor can they TALK, but can they SUFFER?" - - Jeremy Bentham "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims, may be the most oppressive. Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - - C.S. Lewis. "Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny", Aeschylus (525BC-456BC), Agamemnon. "If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them, you will not know them, and what you do not know you will fear. What one fears, one destroys." Chief Dan George All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. -Arthur Schopenhauer "Thank you for fighting the fine fight-- even tho it's a hopeless task, in this system of things. As long as man is ruling man, there will be animals (and humans!) abused and neglected. Your student," Juanita. "If you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow," John Wayne. ANY QUESTIONS, People? "Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad." - ~Aldous Huxley. "Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!" "Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain!" -Friedrich Schiller. INDEEDY. AND THAT'S HOWE COME THEY GOT ME NHOWE! In Love And Light, I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours, The WORLD'S CRUELEST Trainer, Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply A-M-A-Z-I-N-G M-A-J-E-S-T-I-C G-R-A-N-D M-A-S-T-E-R Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Ferret, Goat, Monkey SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Director of Research, Human And Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory, BIOSOUND Scientific, Director of Training, Wits' End Dog Training 1611 24th St Orlando, FL 32805 Phone: 1-407-425-5092 (Call ANY TIME) http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard E-mail: Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory @HotMail.Com Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory @HotMail.Com TheAmazingPuppyWizard @Mail.Com The_800_Pound_Gorilla_In_The_Room @HotMail.Com