First of all, I doubt you have seen many EB's of pure ENGLISH bloodlines. How many Kingrock, Ocobo, MyStyle, Outdoors etc. dogs have you seen? Secondly, ever wonder where people get their foundation stock to create "Bandogs?" How many Neo or APBT breeders worth their salt would sell a dog to someone who is UPFRONT about crossing? That leaves either BYB's or like Lucero, flat out lying about what they want the dog for. Mmmmm,,,,nice. :roll: :roll:[/quote] Mr. BC To accuse a man that I highly respect and of which my dogs descend from his stock (Joe Lucero) is highly offensive! And to state that a man of his reputation would have to lie to obtain breeding stock is ridiculous! As for your comment about any breeder worth his salt would sell a specimen to someone upfront about crossing... The types of Neapolitans a reputable bandog breeder is looking for are the exact ones that should not be placed in pet homes. These specimens are of too strong a temperament to be placed with anyone not willing and extremely knowledgeable about training and handling large driven dogs. That breeder would actually be acting responsible and actually should be honored to have one of his dogs placed in such a program. It reiterates that his stock has proven working temperaments and is structurally sound! Otherwise why would the reputable bandog breeder choose one of their dogs? I understand the general blanket statements that the USNMC has stated, but this is to direct the many ignorant breeders, which is the majority of there membership. (For christ sakes they will not even allow pictures of neos doing there "JOB!" on their web site! What type of breed wardens does that imply? I'm sorry but if I have a protection breed I dang sure want to see a number of specimens still training to bite.... If they can't bite they shouldn't be called protection anything!) I have approached two or three neo breeders in the past and had to deal with the immediate rejection, but after explaining (extensively and several times asking them to let me show them) I have had the opportunity to acquire several dogs (of which the timing was not right on my end)(now this took me coming out and demo'ing my dogs, and reiterating what in fact I was doing. Improving my working dogs... of which are basically a working neo) So your statement is actually contrary to the truth. If they are reputable and knowledgeable they shouldn't have a problem at all. And one last item I would like to correct of yours… I currently have a litter of pups on the ground that even from the shallowest line of descent would be F3, and of which the deepest line would be F8. (my apologies but I can not quote this, but the AKC considers F5 as pure bred and general genetic theory is F4) Out of a total of 13 only one specimen was not of type (a recessive white color stemming from the bulldog side) That Sir, would indicate breeding to type, of which is not indicative of “MUTTS”! It puzzles me that only dog people are so infatuated with only exclusively line breeding for “purity”, and have little regard for/knowledge of inbreeding coefficients and genetic depression. If any breed of which I am knowledgeable; the Neapolitan Mastiff, being descendant of only 8 dogs, of which most of the current show population is extremely weighted to only 4 or 5; sorely needs an introduction of new genetic material. I am by far not “knocking” the breed. In fact they are my favorite. (Owned two, both of which died very young of genetically inherited maladies, and one of the few in my area listed as breed rescue for them) Bandoggers are using current animal genetic theory and imposing this knowledge on breeding formulas documented on the English Bull Mastiff/Gamekeepers dogs (The best documented bandog program of the past) Hell even the German breed warden for the GSD has tried and failed to convince the show crowd to reopen the stud books to infuse some badly needed new genetic material. He directly sees what is happening to his breed and having a working dog background knows what is needed to bring back the GSD. (Due to the plague of ailments the GSD currently has{brought on by breeders selecting for traits not conducive for there intended purpose} most police departments are now employing Mals. Mr. BC…. Read…. Learn… Stop being like all the rest of the “cattle” and seek the truth!