Bobobman - if ypu re-read what I said - I did not say or was I implying the Presa was Dumb. I was pointing out that in comparison to a good Rotty. By intelligent - I dont simply mean a dog that whilst training obeys instructions I have had a number of dogs GSD's included but have found Rotts as intelligent. Albeit in a slightly different way! Presadam - Thanks for your valued input - Some excellent points. You give a great insight into the Presa world.