Yeah, but Roger does not really have or even likes the "high strung" prey monster herders, he prefers a calmer more serious temperament. He breeds for all around family protectors, not sporty dogs. Riker is very level headed, he is one of my favorites currently on his yard, but he has a couple of new dogs on the lot now, so that might change if I visit again. Not to speak for Roger, but there are no heavy herder influences there like in other programs, just one Dutch shepherd cross. He has mentioned using more "old school" GSD, but only has toyed with the idea to date. Mostly, the stuff is going back to bulldog blood right now. Consider the herder influence a bit of seasoning, and less a main ingredient...