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Low prey drive

[quote1254970859=Hugo] ... if the prey drive is a neccesary complement for a true guardian dog; if this (the low prey drive) is a common characteristic of all LGD; and why is that? Thanks in advance. hugo [/quote1254970859] Low prey drive is sure the common trait in LGDs. They hunt for food, and they are good hunters - they can catch and kill wild hogs, and they do it often in Tadjickistan, as well as in GA, where wild pigs came too close to the house. They catch and eat groundhogs and mice, - and whatever eadible come to their territory. But they won't leave their territory, other than with their masster (if any - the concept of the "owner" is not common to the shepherd's dogs). But if they are bounded with master, they can be used as "walking hounds", scenthounds, bloodhounds, and most often as wolfhounds - mainly in ateppe regions of Central Asia. Not to forget about bear hunt - few weeks ago two of my puppies (1.5 y old) working at the ranch in Rocky Mtns, were protecting the sheep from the black bear and mauled it to the point when it had to be shot by herder... So LGDs can hunt, but as most things they do - in their own way
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    • I don't know if this question has already been discussed. If that is the case just redirect me to the topic. If not I will appreciate your imputs. I understand that the CO has a very high defensive drive as well as a low prey drive. I would like to confirm if this is true; if the prey drive is a neccesary complement for a true guardian dog; if this (the low prey drive) is a common characteristic of all LGD; and why is that? Thanks in advance. hugo
      • [quote1254970859=Hugo] ... if the prey drive is a neccesary complement for a true guardian dog; if this (the low prey drive) is a common characteristic of all LGD; and why is that? Thanks in advance. hugo [/quote1254970859] Low prey drive is sure the common trait in LGDs. They hunt for food, and they are good hunters - they can catch and kill wild hogs, and they do it often in Tadjickistan, as well as in GA, where wild pigs came too close to the house. They catch and eat groundhogs and mice, - and whatever eadible come to their territory. But they won't leave their territory, other than with their masster (if any - the concept of the "owner" is not common to the shepherd's dogs). But if they are bounded with master, they can be used as "walking hounds", scenthounds, bloodhounds, and most often as wolfhounds - mainly in ateppe regions of Central Asia. Not to forget about bear hunt - few weeks ago two of my puppies (1.5 y old) working at the ranch in Rocky Mtns, were protecting the sheep from the black bear and mauled it to the point when it had to be shot by herder... So LGDs can hunt, but as most things they do - in their own way
        • I did not know the CO has low prey drive. I though is the oposite. ...
          • [quote1255046287=Andreita] I did not know the CO has low prey drive. I though is the oposite. ... [/quote1255046287] Can you, or someone else, explain how it works in the case of the CO. Why is it common (the low prey drive) in the other LGD but not in the CO? hugo
            • Because the CO is not an LGD.
              • [color=#3333cc]Admin worte Exactly! Most breeds are multipurpose and the LGD is first a Dog, second a Guardian Dog, and ultimately a Livestock Guardian Dog. So if we really think about it - the "marked sense of property" is probably what made them successful guardians and facilitated their adaptation to livestock duties. Nature and function took care of the rest. When there are no livestock to guard then the LGD just becomes a GD. Most of us already know this I think. EsqCaucasians wrote Well said. However specialization also occurred -different types doing different jobs with different phenotypes and differences in temperament. The dogs guarding the villages generally heavier and more aggressive to human strangers. (See village guard thread). . Astibus Wolf wrote ... Astibus wrote ... The Caucasian OVCHARKA is an LGD! The name says it. Is the Немецкая овчарка an LGD too? Hahaha, I knew this was coming, somehow I expected it earlier though. Well, all I can say is that one is an entirely and from the ground up designed breed and the inventor named it the way he saw "fit", whereas the other(s) are more or less self-evolved - in their beginning at least. Wolf wrote ... Is the KO breed an LGD? Nope. Same goes for the Sharplaninatz breed, for that matter. Et tu, Lupe? No, it's cool really, I kinda had a sense I'd be lynched from all sides for this. Nevertheless, and regardless of (the probably hinted) subsequent urban selection, the very fabric of a CO/Shar IMO is deeply rooted in Livestock Guarding Dogs. Nearly all their traits and qualities that we admire today in these dogs are based on classic LGD behavior. They protect, because they care! Literally. That "caring" has been instilled in them through severe selection in a rural life as livestock guardians and not as estate-guards. Their amplified parental instinct as well as reduced prey drive is, what was initially necessary and moreover imperative to make them highly effective LGDs. This same behavioral pattern is what we admire when no livestock happens to be around. An overly-protective and constant 'worry' is what distinguishes these breeds from many other guard breeds, where the motivation oftentimes is solely based on primitive aggression rather than meaningful protection. Here is what I believe (and no point to argue this as I specifically state that it is my personal belief): Without continuing to maintain the original LGD ancestry in these breeds, neither the CO nor the Shar in the long run will be able to do what they do best. Without reinforcing this elementary and critical foundation, they will eventually morph into 'dobermans'. I am convinced that these breeds NEED to remain LGDs in order to be the 'full package'. A tree without its roots is basically dead wood.[/color]Dan Andreita wrote I just read this, so the Co is not an LGD? guauuu is the first time I see this. Sorry about my ignorance .
                • [quote1255056507=Wolf] Because the CO is not an LGD. [/quote1255056507] I do agree, but I do not agree. It is a fact that most af the COs in the world don't guard livestock and they never did, I agree. But which breeds or types of dogs are the foundation of the CO? Gampr, Tushetian Nagazi, Georgian Mountain Dog, etc., etc., etc. the greatest (or among the greatest) LGDs; and all of them with low prey drive. So why the CO would have gotten his high defense drive from those ancestors but not the low prey drive. Who did the CO get his high prey drive from? Now besides teoretical points of view, my COs and all the COs I know (which are not that much I accept) have low prey drive but are terrific guardians, perhaps just a coincidence. Which percentage of COs that you know in person have high prey drive? Thanks hugo
                  • [quote1255061226=Wolf] Because the CO is not an LGD. [/quote1255061226] i do agree with alex here, but one question. who told the russian CO or FCI CO like others call it has a high prey drive *-) it doesn´t look like a high prey drive to me. the situation is not a situation of defence and what i see here is NO DRIVE, beside being bored and protecting itself with a lack of skills and being bored is definitely not prey drive. ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXOQ-h3O1YU&feature=email
                    • [quote1255106982=PUGNACES-BRITANNIAE-AK] it doesn´t look like a high prey drive to me. the situation is not a situation of defence and what i see here is NO DRIVE, beside being bored and protecting itself with a lack of skills and being bored is definitely not prey drive. [/quote1255106982] With the CO, prey drive in regards to prey/hunting and prey drive in regards to protection might as well be considered different drives.
                      • [quote1255156657=Xamen13] With the CO, prey drive in regards to prey/hunting and prey drive in regards to protection might as well be considered different drives. [/quote1255156657] BINGO Kris!
                        • [quote1255275910=Wolf] Because the CO is not an LGD. [/quote1255275910] And yet, they are quite good at it. I wonder how that could be? This morning's pictures.
                          • I was wating for you Yelena. Very nice pics BTW. I would very much appreciate your opinion on this topic. From my point of view, the CO inherited his low prey drive from their LGDs ancestors and that is his nature now, besides if he is mainly involved or not in flock guarding (of course this can change in the time to come). Is this low prey drive a requirement to be a good LGD? Why? What do you thing about all of this Yelena, your opnion is very important to me. Take care, hugo
                            • [quote1255278300=Hugo] Is this low prey drive a requirement to be a good LGD? Why? [/quote1255278300] Because livestock animals are prey animals, they will run on a daily basis. I see it constantly - one sheep gets spooked by something and takes off, the others will follow and there you have a running herd of animals. You don't want a switch turn on in the LGD's head - "they run, I should kill", because the dogs are quite large and strong and they are able to make damage. Not to mention baby-sheep-goats... they run and jump silly all day long. If you ever saw a bunch of baby-lambs - they are hillarious and entertaining, running around, jumping over each other. If you have a dog with prey drive - all these babies are dead seconds.
                              • [quote1255281590=Xamen13] [quote1255106982=PUGNACES-BRITANNIAE-AK] it doesn´t look like a high prey drive to me. the situation is not a situation of defence and what i see here is NO DRIVE, beside being bored and protecting itself with a lack of skills and being bored is definitely not prey drive. [/quote1255106982] With the CO, prey drive in regards to prey/hunting and prey drive in regards to protection might as well be considered different drives. [/quote1255281590] "Drives" are not this simple, as Kris states. This is a perfect example of why the drive theory is outdated and too general. I still use the term drive, but if you don't fully understand the concept of the behavior, you can confuse the use of drive or "low prey drive" to describe an action, when in fact, a CO has a healthy "prey drive," just in a certain manifestation. Here's an article about the subject... http://www.animalbehaviorassociates.com/pdf/RMN_drive_troubles.pdf
                                • Hi all, I know this is dated, but for me is still relevant particularly in regard to use of sarplaninacs as a LGD VS GD. I am interested in more input on prey drive in the breed. Anyone have anything more to add about prey drive in the shar - good, bad or otherwise? I'm new here so if there is anything other than this thread that is more recent I would be appreciative to know. Meanwhile I will keep reading past posts. Thanks so much, Kerry
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