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Breed or Train for a job

Actually Jess. It is a bit different with dogs.  You see for the most part our current crop of dogs are bred to do something.. they herd, retrieve, guard, hunt varmints, protect property and flock, and provide companionship.  So my point is that if the need is for a dog to hunt varmints .. get a terrier.. that is what they were bred and developed to do.. need a dog to go in the bush and fetch your bird- get a retriever. Need a dog to protect you and  your stuff... get a guardian.. so the closer you get to the desired traits that you want you can better modify the behavior with training. For instance, if I wanted a dog to retrieve my birds I would not use a chihuahua or a Neapolitan Mastiff.  Can you train them to do that - yes - but that is not what they were bred for and if the Chi gets eaten by a snake and the Neo eats your bird .. you can't blame them..

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    • it is my opinion that the inherent instincts of the dog is far more important than the training of the dog. Training is used to modify behaviors to suit our individual needs but is not as effective as selecting a dog that is genetically wired to do what we want. What say you?

      • I must agree. Instincts is far more important than training. Training is good and necessary. I can train a dog to do many things. But if a dog is more genetically prone to do a specific job it will be better suited to do that job especially with training. 

         

        If you want to hunt get a dog that was bred to hunt. If you need a retriever get a do the is bred to retrieve. If you need a guardian the best dog to use is a dog that is a guardian nature. 

      • Agree but dont underestimate a good leader and training because a dog will never suit your individual needs when there is no stable leadership

      • Depends on what your looking to get out of your dog. If it is just a house dog, sure. But if you are looking for a animal to have your back in every aspect, then you Have to train the animal. Just like with humans one needs to be educated and taught to preform a job properly, it is no different with dogs.

        • Actually Jess. It is a bit different with dogs.  You see for the most part our current crop of dogs are bred to do something.. they herd, retrieve, guard, hunt varmints, protect property and flock, and provide companionship.  So my point is that if the need is for a dog to hunt varmints .. get a terrier.. that is what they were bred and developed to do.. need a dog to go in the bush and fetch your bird- get a retriever. Need a dog to protect you and  your stuff... get a guardian.. so the closer you get to the desired traits that you want you can better modify the behavior with training. For instance, if I wanted a dog to retrieve my birds I would not use a chihuahua or a Neapolitan Mastiff.  Can you train them to do that - yes - but that is not what they were bred for and if the Chi gets eaten by a snake and the Neo eats your bird .. you can't blame them..

          • Gary,

            I agree get the correct breed for the job first. Then secondary comes the training if wanting to train.

            • ".... if wanting to teain"  that is indeed a very good point. Many of us who really know dogs understand that training is necessary to reinforce the desired behavior already inherent in the dog. 

              Thanks for the reply. 

            • Sure selecting a breed that was bred for a specific task sure does hedge in your favor. But to do a job well, you need to practice. 

              Anyone can shoot a gun, but one puts in the work to be a sharp shooter.

              Dogs are the same, of course genetics sure do help. But someone who wants a dog to retrieve teaches the dog the task. If you want a dog to do nosework, you teach them. Bitework, you aren't teaching them the action they know it. But you are teaching them when to and for how long as well as when to recall. 

               

              • This is so true. I all the years that I have been training dogs I have never taught a dog to sit, down, etc. I have taught them to to respond to my body language, gestures, voice, etc. The dog instinctively knows how to sit and lay down. I have taught them to respond to my cues to stop a carjacking, kidnapping, home invasion, perimeter protection. I have taught them to release a bite upon my request or demand. 

                I have a couple of Patterdale Terriers. I don’t teach them to hunt, climb or tunnel. But I do teach them to respond to me to climb, tunnel, etc.

                • Eliteguardianpresa, you are correct.  We are in fact teaching the dog to do an action they already do but to communicate them in a way so they understand what we want, when we want it done. Once you open up the communication where the dog understands what we want, it's then that you can bring out the best in the dog.

                  Such a good topic

                • I believe dogs evolved for their jobs. The best you can do is select the right blood for the right job, then breed to repair them back into the animal that evolved to perform that job. Also expose them to that job from a young age, and let them practice and condition themselves mentally and physically for the job. Training should play only a very minor role. If too much training is required you're probably trying to make a dog do something it never evolved to do. 

                • If I am an avid duck hunter I am not going to get an English Bulldog or an English Mastiff and teach it to retrieve the ducks I shoot with my shotgun. Sure I can teach a dog to retrieve at my demand. But I'd be better off in my opinion getting a gun dog. A bird dog or even a Golden Retriever might be better suited for the task. If I need a great dog for family and home protection I'm not going to employ Yorkie or Dachshund . I would expect a better breed to choose would be a Presa or Caucasian Ovcharka. I'm only naming a couple of breeds. Of course more breed will suitable as well. After selecting a more suitable breed then train the dogs to do what they were bred to do and respond to my cues to do it or stop doing it. 

                  • If I am an avid duck hunter I am not going to get an English Bulldog or an English Mastiff and teach it to retrieve the ducks I shoot with my shotgun. 

                    Quite right EGP. We must select the breed based on the function they are to perform. Your example above is a good way to put things into perspective.  Much the same as you would not want that English Mastiff if all you want is a lapdog.

                     
                  • Breeding actually shouldn't be considered a business. It's more of an art that takes years of knowledge to do it properly.

                    Anyone can purchase kennels, dogs and set up shop. Doesn't make it right though.

                    The love of breeding should come from the love of doing right by the breed and producing excellent representations of the breed.
                    Showing, working, titling your own dogs is a time consuming passion. Time consuming and I doubt those that do it right are living off the profits of their puppies. I'm thinking of getting a camera. Found this Furbo review think it's a decent option.

                    • There are many commercial breeders who actually do good work. For a long time now many breed clubs and organizations have vilified the commercial production of animals.  I think there is a place for both the hobby breeder and the others if done right.

                      I have never bought a dog from a commercial breeder - but from breeders who are passionate about their dogs and reputation in the dogworld. Yes, some do make a living from producing, showing, titling, breeding and selling puppies. 

                      Doing all the right things with your dogs to ensure you are producing good specimens is not cheap - so selling some pups is not a bad thing either.

                      Nice lead in to the Furbo camera by the way. The treats are to come from a human hand not some silly machine. cool

                    • I have been giving a lot of thought to the plight or working dogs and their potential comeback in the near future.

                      Generally, in the last several decades the industrialization of farms and the advance of technology including motion sensors, remote cameras and intrusion diction technologies have virtually put the guardian dogs out of business.

                      Yes there are some people who have the need and still maintain their guardians and herders but for the most part dogs are now companions and enjoy "family" status.

                      As technology gets more intrusive and society continues its slide into socialism and tyrannical rule, I foresee a resurgence in strong guard dogs and protection capable beasts.

                      I will continue the narrative later but feel free to share your thoughts.

                      Gary

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                      Breed or Train for a job
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                      Actually Jess. It is a bit different with dogs.  You see for the most part our current crop of dogs are bred to do something.. they herd, retrieve, guard, hunt varmints, protect property and flock, and provide companionship.  So my point is that if the need is for a dog to hunt varmints .. get a terrier.. that is what they were bred and developed to do.. need a dog to go in the bush and fetch your bird- get a retriever. Need a dog to protect you and  your stuff... get a guardian.. so the closer you get to the desired traits that you want you can better modify the behavior with training. For instance, if I wanted a dog to retrieve my birds I would not use a chihuahua or a Neapolitan Mastiff.  Can you train them to do that - yes - but that is not what they were bred for and if the Chi gets eaten by a snake and the Neo eats your bird .. you can't blame them..

                      gsicard
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