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Aggressive Behavior

Is aggressive behavior always negative?

No. Would it be bad if your dog acted aggressively when it came time for him to protect you??

Do you think it belongs to guard dogs?

No. Aggressive behavior does NOT only belong to guard dogs. All dogs have inherent aggressive behaviors, but in breeds that have been bred for the purposes of GUARDING have those tendencies honed by genetics AND by training.

Can a guard dog be good without aggressive behavior?

Id say no. A dog who is ""guarding"" without aggressive behavior behind it is called a WATCHDOG. :wink:

Is growling and barking for all people aggressive behavior?

It depends on what the scenario is. If its just a dog growling at someone on the other side of the fence or window and then barking... id say NO. I mean, lets look at what a bark really is. It is just a way of the dog to say HEY, I SEE YOU OVER THERE, I AM AWARE OF YOUR PRESENCE etc....

Can there be dominance without aggression?

Yes. Its called passive aggression. It can be done between dog and dog, or dog and man. It can be something as simple as the dog coming up to you after you stopped petting it, and putting its head under your hand and nudging you, MAKING you pet them. Not all aggression has to be hair up, teeth baring and all that jazz.

Can a dog be a good protection dog without aggression so yes what makes the difference between guarding/protective behavior and aggressive behavior.

Again, i say NO. A dog can be a GREAT watch dog, and a great deterrent, but NOT a great guard dog without the aggression or conviction behind the intent. I

t truly is an electrifying experience when i can get my mind to focus on 1 thing. LOL Mike

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Replies (19)
    • A few questions rise up in my minds after the co topic. And i only want to discus the agressive behaviour loose from breeds Is agressive behaviour always negative? Do you think it belongs to guard dogs? Can a guard dog be good without agressive behaviour? Is growling and barking for all people agressive behaviour? Can there be dominance without agression? Can a dog be a good protection dog without agression so yes what makes the diffrence between guarding/protective behaviour and agressive behaviour. Maby i call it agressive behaviour too soon and are there people who see it diffrent. i would love to read what people think about it.
      • Is aggressive behavior always negative?

        No - guardians and livestock protection are supposed to have aggression as a large part of their makup. Aggressive behavior towards family members is negative.[/color] 

        Do you think it belongs to guard dogs?

        It is not a guard dog without it - see watchdog

        Can a guard dog be good without aggressive behavior?

        It is not a good guard dog without it - see watchdog. 

        Is growling and barking for all people aggressive behavior?

        Barking for all people - tha's a good watchdog. For all strangers entering property growling and barking it is good behavior... dog should relax when strangers are introduced properly.

        Can there be dominance without aggression?

        No - it is like smoke without fire... it is the communicated threat of aggression which provide the non contact dominance.

        Can a dog be a good protection dog without aggression?

        Yes what makes the difference between guarding/protective behavior and aggressive behavior? 

        • Is agressive behaviour always negative? No, but the answer is breed dependent. You wouldn't want a breed that is supposed to be friendly to be aggressive. When talking about the CO it should be aggressive.

          Do you think it belongs to guard dogs? It should, yes. Otherwise you have a nice watchdog.

          Can a guard dog be good without agressive behaviour? I don't see how. Like stated above, it could make a nice watchdog.

          Is growling and barking for all people agressive behaviour? No, not necessarily. I've known of non-aggressive dogs that growl and bark (i.e. fear reactions). Can there be dominance without agression? Yes.

          Can a dog be a good protection dog without agression so yes what makes the diffrence between guarding/protective behaviour and agressive behaviour.

          If we're talking about a real protection dog than a degree of aggression must be present. If we're talking about a dog that 'protects' the family by warning them of the presence of strangers than aggression isn't necessary. Even a small barking dog can deter bad guys.

          • Thank you :D Wanted a discussion but well we all agree at most parts. Although i do believe that there can be dominance without aggression but with dogs at the same level than it will end in aggression. So it cant stay NO. I do want to say that aggression towards dogs humans and all other kind of things that we don't have an explanation for is for me a weak nerved dog. Weak nerves is for me a dog within reasonable behavior.

            Maybe i should read that in the other topic but even when my dog is scared for something example a car (don't know why but he is) and he always react with aggression than he has for me no weak nerves because i can still fallow him see his reasons. If i cant read him so knowing at front his reactions than he has weak nerves for me.

            • No Des - if you can't read him it does not mean that he has weak nerve. I means that you can't read him. Lets stop all the nerve talk because I think people are being led to believe that if a dog displays any dominance behavior it is a nervebag and that is silly at best and misleading at worst.

              Lets talk about the behavior and the triggers and not assume that we can bisect a dogs nervous system by looking at it. Some of our members can but most of us are not that skilled.

              • [quote=gsicard]No Des - if you can't read him it does not mean that he has weak nerve. I means that you can't read him. Lets stop all the nerve talk because I think people are being led to believe that if a dog displays any dominance behavior it is a nervebag and that is silly at best and misleading at worst. Lets talk about the behavior and the triggers and not assume that we can bisect a dogs nervous system by looking at it. Some of our members can but most of us are not that skilled.[/quote]

                Excellent points. ALL animal behaviors are a result of stimulus & response. Aggression or passiveness are results of triggers, either external or internal. There is no "Bad" behavior, however not all behaviors are appropriate in all situations.

                • [quote=gsicard]No Des - if you can't read him it does not mean that he has weak nerve. I means that you can't read him. Lets stop all the nerve talk because I think people are being led to believe that if a dog displays any dominance behavior it is a nervebag and that is silly at best and misleading at worst. Lets talk about the behavior and the triggers and not assume that we can bisect a dogs nervous system by looking at it. Some of our members can but most of us are not that skilled.[/quote]

                  Hate to burst the bubbles, but growling can be a sign of FEAR, and so-called "aggressive" behavior, based in fear as well. It is vrey often possible to tell by looking at body posture.

                  • :D all things about weak nerves i disagree and i also wrote that in the other topic. Normaly an owner will learn to read his dogs will all his good things and bad things.we learn what triggers him and what not. Even with the bad things we can deal with it because its always the same that triggers him. If that constantly changes and he isnt trustfull at all and we have no clu what we can expect from our dog than its for me weak nerves.And i count on that people can read :D :D Instable behaviour . Dominance is tehre and very clear to me and nothing to do with weak nerves .Soi defendly agree what you write gary so i thought you maby you dont udnerstand what i mean. People who known by you are predictable in normal situations if tehy are constantly diffrent than they are not stable and i mean it in that kind of way. :wink:
                    • After dogs turn 2 they can be temperament tested with a little pressure from decoy. Then it is possible to know something more other than guesses and wishful thinking. Just a general suggestion, not directed at anyone in particular.
                      • would never take that personal. I just said that i have my own definition about weak nerves. I have nothing to do with breeders or clubs so i am happy to be able to have my own definitions. Dont know if i will test him anyway because for me it doesnt proove anything. Never did with my sheppards either and i always felt safe.
                        • Guarding without aggression? I think it is not only possible, but it is also how my bullmastiff seems to do it. Two times while on leash my female bully has felt threatened. Both times she used her body to push me away from what she percieved to be the threat, while giving a soft gruff warning bark as she retreated (with me in a forced retreat :f ). On one other ocassion a friend of mine (who she didn't know) abruptly entered our house. All she did was position herself in the room between me and him and bark loudly while holding her ground. In every case she demonstrated what I would call gaurding, without displaying any aggression at all.
                          • [quote=esprinter]In every case she demonstrated what I would call gaurding, without displaying any agression at all.[/quote]You are joking right? And what do you really think your dog was doing when she was barking or gruffing at the person and holding her ground.... ? OH my God. People, aggression is not a bad thing? It seems that everyone is so turned off on the term "aggression" that it is not even seen for what it is. I am very happy that my dogs are aggressive when their property is trespassed on. If they just stood there barking and tried to push me out of the way and did not show aggression .. then they would not be worth the bullet I would expend on them or the meat they are fed. Guardian dogs are supposed to guard and a guardian without aggression is a watchdog. Question of the day - how does a dog demonstrate Guarding ability without aggressive tendancy?
                            • Can there be dominance without agression? No - it is like smoke without fire... it is the communicated threat of aggression which provide the non contact dominance.

                              I have to disagree to a large extent with this statement Gary. Some of displays of aggression may be breed dependent protective behavior which may or may not be dominant behavior such as with some LGDs or it may not have anything to do with dominance at all. What appears to be aggressive dominant behavior can be something as simple as a dog acting out because he is frustrated at his owner because the owner cannot read the dog or communicate properly to the dog to let it know what he wants it to do.

                              Aggressive behavior can be from some form of anxiety that the dog has because it wants to avoid some aversive outcome based on previous bad experiences. For example, compulsive punitive training methods. From my experience, the most dominant dogs of all are the ones that are most confident and also the most benevolent. They outwardly physically display that confidence in the way they carry themselves. They only display aggressive behavior and use force only when absolutely necessary. When possible they are the ones that will mostly ignore outward displays of aggression from other dogs. They will allow puppies and other dogs to come and take a bone from them. They don't react in most situations because they know what they are capable of doing and just really don't care. They are dogs that will feed of off their owners emotions and will be largely indifferent to their surroundings if their owners are.

                              They are dogs that when they are around their human family will quietly and unnoticeably place themselves by the youngest and meekest human member of their family. This can be from something as simple as sleeping in the granddaughter's room when she comes to visit to calmly placing itself between a family member and a potential threat as noted by Esprinter's example. And as Mike noted it can also be something as simple as the dog coming up to you after you stopped petting it, and putting its head under your hand and nudging you, MAKING you pet them. Not all aggression has to be hair up, teeth baring and all that jazz.

                              But a dog demonstrating that behavior can also be doing that purely because he likes it and has learned and ultimately trained his owner to pet him merely by nudging his hand and not have anything to do with being dominant at all. I could get into the similar related arguments about the endless list of human dog pack dominance rules about pulling on the lead, walking through the door first, eating first, getting on the bed or furniture etc but that is getting off topic.

                              Anyway the moral of my long winded but not quite Wolfbytean epistle is that we have to be careful when talking about dominance and aggressive behavior because in many cases they are not the same thing or even related behaviors.

                              Lastly, I also have to note that this is just my opinion based on my experiences.

                              • I had forgotten about all the great comments on this post and am going back through and reading all. So much to take in from the members who really know dogs on here. Fantastic post and replies.

                              • [quote="esprinter]In every case she demonstrated what I would call guarding, without displaying any aggression at all.[/quote]You are joking right? And what do you really think your dog was doing when she was barking or gruffing at the person and holding her ground.... ? OH my God. People, aggression is not a bad thing? It seems that everyone is so turned off on the term "aggression" that it is not even seen for what it is. I am very happy that my dogs are aggressive when their property is trespassed on. If they just stood there barking and tried to push me out of the way and did not show aggression .. then they would not be worth the bullet I would expend on them or the meat they are fed. Guardian dogs are supposed to guard and a guardian without aggression is a watchdog. Question of the day - how does a dog demonstrate Guarding ability without aggressive tendency?[/quote]

                                What she did was protect my person. My understanding is that Bullmastiffs are not generally bred to be junkyard dogs that protect property. They are better suited as personal protectors.. I live in So Cal, the lawyer capitol of the world. A human aggressive dog here can cost you far more than any simple thief can take. Professional robbers here know how to handle mean dogs. Any thief that will come into a home despite the presence of a barking Bullmastiff is one who can handle any dog (sometimes here they simply shoot them).

                                The fact that she will use her voice to warn me and her body to protect me and my family from personal harm is all that I want from her. I have no desire to lose my home and everything I own, because my dog tore up a kid who came over my fence after a ball or something...Right now I feel that our dog is exactly what I want in a dog. She allows me the piece of mind of knowing that she will do her best to protect the individuals in my family, yet not get me sued over a misunderstanding. Our dog loves people, but she is willing to defend our bodies from physical harm. You may not call that guarding, that is your right. But here where I live a good family pet that will act the way she does is far more useful than an aggressive, territorial, dog, that (here in Ca) is little more than a lawsuit waiting to happen.

                                Here in Ca we are not legally allowed to use any potentially leathal force to defend property. A badly mauled tresspasser with a sharp lawyer is likely to become a homeowner at the dog ownwer's expense. P.S. The definition I most often see of an "aggressive dog" is one that involves inappropriate violence. A dog that will confront a legitimate physical threat is not aggressive in the eyes of many (including myself).

                                So perhaps you and I are simply defining aggression differently. We surely seem to define guarding differently, because I see guarding ones person as guarding at least as much as I see the protection of property as guarding.... 8)

                                • Esprinter, your Bullmastiff sounds like a lovely dog, but I honestly think you're proving Gary's point. Gary's question was 'how does a dog demonstrate guarding ability without aggressive tendency?' By placing her body between you and a perceived threat your Bullmastiff is showing guarding instinct and aggressive tendency.

                                  She is saying to the perceived threat, "Stop now or I will stop you." Now you know your dog a lot better than anyone here. It could be that if pressed your Bullmastiff might back down. That's very possible. But it doesn't mean that she isn't showing an aggressive tendency. How could a dog possibly guard if it isn't willing to show aggression?

                                  Your definition as aggressive behavior being exhibited by 'junkyard dogs' is a false one. Though many people believe that an aggressive dog is an out-of-control terror, barking at fences and lunging towards people, that's just not true. That is the description of an untrained, unruly dangerous dog.

                                  A truly aggressive dog is one that indicates it will use force to stop a threat. It's too bad that such a negative connotation is associated with the word aggressive. It's not necessarily a bad thing depending, of course, on the dog breed.

                                  • MM I'm not trying to disprove his point. He is making perfect sense. I only want to clarify the semantics. It seems the only disagreement is one of semantics and how we define an aggressive dog. You are correct she is a lovely dog. Everyone in my neighborhood knows her as a gentle dog that loves people. I walk her every night or day and after every daytime walk half the kids in my neighborhood come home with slobber on their clothes. :wink:

                                    She will guard she just does it in a defensive rather than an aggressive manor. If actually attacked will she defend me or herself aggressively?? Perhaps. The fact is she has never had to. All of the 3 times I mentioned above ended peacefully and she was very easy to control.

                                    I guess the question is; is a dog that will defend itself or it's owner aggressive??? Or would some other term like "well adjusted" or "appropriatly protective" apply?

                                    • I like the term appropriately protective! It's nice to hear that you have a well socialized, obedient dog that is also appropriately protective. :D I dislike when people have uncontrollable dogs that pose a danger to themselves and to others in the neighborhood in non-threatening situations.

                                      • Thank you. In today's common usage (here in the U.S.) the term "aggressive" is not one that anyone wants associated with their dog (or even their dog's breed). It may sound a bit wussy, but the reality is we are living in a very hyper-litigious society. If (God forbid) I'm ever dragged into court, I want to be able to truthfully say "Your Honor my dog is absolutly non-aggressive, she was only defending herself and me (or my family) from death or great bodily harm". 8)
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