First of all thank you all for posting… :) After reading this discussion, I realize that I should clarify some things... When I started this thread, I wasn’t really interested in which breed beats which other breed - I am sorry, if it may have appeared that way. My question resulted rather out of personal frustration and a lack of understanding, why these awesome livestock guardians are used for pit fighting in the first place. In this frustration I still attempted to avoid open criticism, which possibly made the true intentions of my question somewhat ambiguous. I’m sure we all appreciate the mighty Sarplaninac and its combat capabilites, but that is not the point here. My concern is that the original purpose of a Sar is something else than to fight in a pit. In this process, there are certain qualities, which can be unintentionally jeopardized by such questionable activities. First and foremost, the problem is reflected in the “primary motivation” that leads a Sar to engage in fighting. What would be the incentive for a Sar to fight with absolute force, if he’s off his own territory and without anything of importance to defend?! The betted money of his “master” is surely too abstract for a dog to defend. So what other quality is evluated, if it is not defense? What dogs are favored as champions then? A slight shift in this “primary motivation” might have severe implications for the breed. This basic motivation would be different for breeds that have been traditionally bred to obtain dogs with a very high “gameness”, like some well known fighting breeds (I will avoid to specify a particular breed here, as I don’t want to trigger another one-on-one comparison :wink: ). OK, here I have to clarify that I am not trying to advocate that it is less cruel to use fighting dogs for dog fighting rather than LGD breeds…to the individual dog this won’t matter really. But the motivation of these fighting breeds is (highly simplified) the fight itself, so at least those people involved in dog fighting wouldn’t mess too much with the breed specific personalities. Utilizing Sars for pit fighting with possible subsequent breeding selection for “gameness” can become highly detrimental for a breed that is needed to defend the property by staying close to the livestock, not getting too excited about the opportunity to fight or potentially even straying around and following a predator. In the real world, these dogs will HAVE to work in teams and coordinate their positions when attacked by wild predators. These are complex personality traits so their actions have to be reliable and consistent. Messing with those traditional personalities can have terrible consequences. Being too game can actually turn out to be counter-productive. I will not even go into the outcrossing of Sarplaninci with other fighting breeds as this to me is completely brain dead (ok, so I am openly criticizing afterall :lol: ). Also, there is no point in matching a Sar with any other breed. What deeper purpose would that have?! Other than to satisfy some macho fantasies I mean. Wolf has nailed it as he accurately pointed out, where negative influences most likely are coming from. I just wanted to stress that using Sars for pit fighting is not simply “harmless entertainment” or as some urbanites might believe a darwinistic form of improvement, but can actually have severe consequences for the breed, if that urban "champion" blood is reintroduced into the Sarplaninac genepool. So even if someone is not opposed to dog fighting and it happens to be legal in that respective country, one might not be doing this breed a favor at all. Selection should be based on dogs that have primarily proven themselves in real work - not solely on their fighting abilities in artificial environments. If you want to improve your dogs, go ahead and test them in scenarios, which are relevant to the real world - just like in the old days. :wink: Regards to all, Dan