Lee - If you go back and read and think about my eariler post you see I'm not in any way attacking preformance testing. I'm currently, preparing my Rotty for the AD test. "I am not wishing to offend you, but you must accept the source of the problem was you didn't know how to work a dog in such a way to test performance. " That would make sence if I had bought the dog as an adult.....But, since that dog was 8 wks old at the time your point is moot. No the problem is trusted "breeders" that thought they knew more than they did....They talked alot about history too... :roll: What I am against is preformance ONLY breeding, breeding programs that excuse medical screening as some sort of PC sillyness. I t doesn't matter (to me) how much drive a dog has if it's crippled. A fact that is not always obvious in a young dog. And I belive you do understand that point if you have been in dogs as long as you insdicate. As to your dismissal of titles & competion....I've heard that smack all the time from people that can't get it done. The value in a title is that someone (unbiased & experience in that breed)other that the dog owner is confirming ablity. Bottom line is we all have our own ethics. :wink: