[quote=oktug]When people are speaking about a big boned dog they generally understand all are like the English Mastiff. In order to understand that this was not the case you need to see our dogs in Türkiye. I don't know how I can help you on this. :)[/quote] oktug, I said this in reference to what the other guy said. He lumped CO, Tibetan mastiff and others with the "natural" dogs. Those dogs can be big boned. I can clearly see from the pictures you posted that your dogs are closer to a natural phenotype. My main point is you don't see feral dogs of large size. A feral dog is what you'd have if the dogs were breeding without human intervention. I think we are in agreement.[quote=oktug]He was not taken care of well enough after he was seperated from his mother, nothing major. He grew up and became the father of 2 litters. He even joined the Kangal festival in 2007 with his brothers when they were 5 months old. They were both eliminated as the judges did not believe they were 5 months old.[/quote] Nice to know the puppy turned out fine, thanks. I did a quick calculation there.. Do you normally breed your male dogs at 1.5 years of age? Do your dogs show their full potential by 1.5 years? Regards.