[quote=AlapahaBlueBloodBulldog]Lee, It looks to me you have a nice program. I have complimented on it before. You have a nice acreage for the dogs to run, train and socialize. Overall, your program is a productive positive program for ban dogs. [/quote] Thanks for the kind words. [blockquote]Swinford had the original idea and he most likely didn't use Tosa as this was verified by Murray and he would know more than any of us here.[/blockquote] Murray posted his message as his knowledge on the subject. I have since given him a message that he can confirm if he wishes to do so. [blockquote]Whether or not Swinford used Tosa or not should not be that great deal of an issue. If he didn't and most believe he didn't maybe you should concede to the probability that he most likely didn't. [/blockquote] I can't "concede" to something I know is false. To ask me to do so is wrong as well. I have had direct conversation with more than one person directly involved with Swinford and his dogs. I also have heard directly from one person that they did cross some Tosa into their dogs. I also have pictures of one tosa being handled by one of the people originally involved with the Swinford dogs. So, why would I concede to an alternative view just because someone that wasn't there doesn't like the idea? I can't do that. [blockquote]If I were you I personally wouldn't use the Swinford name. You are headed in the right direction have some nice pits and have produced some fine specimens of Ban Dogs. You're creating your own brand and don't even know it. Name your dogs Lee Robinson Ban Dog. Or Robinson Ban Dog. Continue creating great dogs and buyers will come find you as they have in the past.[/blockquote] I am not really concerned about recognition for my work. I was raised by professors...and also attended universities to develop my knowledge. One of the FIRST lessons I learned was to not plagerize...and to give credit for the work done by those that came before us. I believe our program is now approaching a level of success that is actually passing the siccesses of the Swinford project...as I have heard this from those involved with the original program...so although I understand what you are saying...I still have to give credit to those that came before us. We learned from their work. One of the problems I see today is too many people want to take all the credit. I am interested in the dogs. The credit means little to me. I just like working the dogs. It is my opinion and belief that by using the name of a person who has passed away...and giving him credit for his influence...no one today should get too big a head so to speak. We have considered other names...but in the end I am not sure that is the proper thing to do. By adding to, building from, and learning from the work of others...our work becomes easier and better. For this, I am thankful...as it is a lot of work. [blockquote]Stay away from the squabbling over inane issues and posters and it will validate your program.[/blockquote] Although I again understand your message and appreciate the thought, this isn't about me or validating my program, but just a matter of reporting an accurate history of what happened before my program came along. I believe that we are NOT gods...and for this reason we don't have the luxury of changing history...and I think we should report the truth instead of just stating what we WISHED was the truth. I hope people can understand this. It would be foolish for me to argue the point if this wasn't true...and perhaps it is even foolish for me to argue it even though I know it is true...because nothing is to come of it...EXCEPT knowing the truth is out there. BTW, I noticed you didn't comment on the "ethics" vs. "financial" motive for "organized crime." Certainly you see that the motives of such types are entirely financial. So...to think the Tosa couldn't leave Japan is simply debatable. We certainly know that Tosa did leave...as they are found in many countries and have been for some time. We also know Tosa puppies off of adults that had already been matched and bred have been advertised in the Sporting Dog Journal as well around 1982-1983. The point being..."pure XYZ type" Tosas is irrelivant. Tosa...in some way shape of form have existed in other countries besides Japan for some time.