Tonedog: “apbt? Clearly not, a bully grey is more like it, and even then I'd say the average bully grey is too bully and bulky.” 

But a real apbt is not “bully & bulky”. They are more streamlined dogs that remind of sighthounds with a different head shape.

Tonedog: “apbt is just the ultimate boucheries.” 

I would say the pit bull terrier is the ultimate canine for game dog pit fighting. The ultimate “boucherie”? Hmmm I doubt it. Maybe the dogs that still are used by some butchers and work in a pack which herds unruly cattle are more specialized in their field and a better help for the butcher who has cattle, so they should be more “ultimate” in their field.

Tonedog: “I think in general you underestimate how athletic and fast all alaunts were as dogs of the hunt, the LGDs you consider comparable to veantres and boucheries are far too big and sluggish”

Who considers them to be comparable to Veantres? Me not! There they lack the Sighthound influence. Maybe the Akbash is inbetween, as it really has this influence, but in general Shepherds´ Mastiffs aka LGD´s have a different function as main purpose.

But getting back to the categories. Here almost everybody seems to have a bit different opinions and maybe nobody has the ultimate truth and most of all there is not even a need to put every western, short coated dog with mastiff blood  into one of the three categories. How about that?

OK, let me start again with a few thoughts and questions. You know I said I would put the Presa Canario in the category of the Alaunt Boucherie (Butchers´ Alaunt). You said it would not not fit into the category of Alaunt de Boucherie and you would put it into the category of the Alaunt Veantre. I argued that in general I don´t see the sighthound - or houndblood in the Presa Canario and that´s why I absolutely don´t see it as an Alaunt Veantre.

Later you said there should be categories inbetween, I agree “maybe”, but maybe, just like I have mentioned before, we don´t have to put every western short coated dog into an “Alaunt category”. Of course all these dogs are related to a certain degree, no doubt!

Me personally I just cannot put a game bred apbt into the same category as barrel chested 75kg “bullmastiff-type” dog with short legs for his high weight.

By the way this guy also has put the Presa Canario into the category of the Alaunt de Boucherie. I quote him now

Alaunt de Boucherie

A no brainer really, I think they probably resembled a whole range of dogs we still see today......but to me the true origianal Presa is the most likely candidate 

http://www.manstoppers.com/bullyvard/viewtopic.php?t=56767&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=5a5b4b77b62f7931a363b8ac65e1b6e4

However he didn´t do his own research and also not added his own toughts like we do, as his whole article isn´t written by himself. Instead he just copied parts from da pink and other people I know from carnivora  and posted it as his own thoughts. The strangest thing is that he writes the Presa Canario is the perfect example of an Alaunt Boucherie (here I agree with him you know, although I would take away “best” and replace it with “a” )  and then he posts a 75kg Boerboel on steroids  as  example of a Presa Canario.. The Presas I mean, are far less heavy and differ in type to a Boerboel. Well Tonedog I guess you understand that I cannot put a 75 kg dog with a barrel chest into the same category as a game bred pit bull terrier, that indeed has more sighthound traits and indeed looks more like Bullygrey than Boerboel. Actually there isn´t resemblance with a BB at all. Just as a food note, the BB is a bit odd anyway as many are overly aggressive, while most Volkodavs are much calmer, beside the FCI CO that is known to be more human aggressive and vocal (barking etc.), just like the BB or Fila, but again the CO isn´t a Volkodav. but a sentry guard/home guardian.

By the way on the web there were two videos of BB tested in the pit (big muscular, barrel chested dogs) and they gased out after 4 minutes, which actually shows what a different animal they are, compared to an apbt.

But I guess your interpretation of the Alaunt de Boucherie also differs to these quite heavy dogs.

I mention that, as you already don´t consider the Presa Canario to be a Butchers´  Alaunt like I do. And here I am thinking of much lighter dogs than what Donald Stock interprets as  Alaunt de Boucherie.

Alaunt Gentil:

Bully-Grey:

apbt:

I just love the build of the real pit-bull terrier. Nothing overdone there and the opposite of all the bulky, barrel chested bullmastiff type dogs.