Funny...my dogs are with me 24/7 They are always out and about and they have a life better than most humans and eat better than most humans. No matter what you say about electric collars you dont make me feel bad because I know that I am not hurting my animals in the least. I dont know how familiar with LGD's you really are because if they dont want to work for ya they just plain arent going to regardless of a training method. Argue your points all you want but i know many people that have such amazing relationships with their animals that you all different ways of humane training. You can say whatever you want on the net but that doesnt mean it is true Agree to disagree