[blockquote]If you form a proper bond with your dog and train it in basic (reasonable) obedience, then there is no need for the involvment of any type of electric "help", but if for whatever reasons you are unable to handle and control your dog, then I'd suggest working on that first, either via more intense training or by getting help from a professional before resorting to the use of shock collars. Sure, some dogs are just too driven, some are too independent and some are just plain stupid. Just like humans. But not quite as bad... [/blockquote] I am not sure if that was directed toward me but I am going to respond anyways. I have 6' commercial grade fencing that is padlocked with top and bottom bar. Neither one of my dogs have tested my fencing and are quite happy in their yard. Neither one of my dogs would respect and electric fence. My sisters Anatolian and brother weimeraner would go through them fairly often so I never even took installing one as a consideration I do have an amazing bond with my dogs and I with them pretty much all day long. My reason for 'electric collars' is because I needed a 100% perfect recall and about 75% of the time they would listen if I needed them to come inside without the collar training. But if the neighbors intact male rottie.lab mix was out...forget about it...Zero would pretty much flip me off Now being pregnant I am not about to go out in an icey yard to correct him for not listening and I wanted to take him to the ocean and lake to run and play without being on a lead but I needed a 100% consistent recall in order to do that. With the training of a collar...I now have 100% recall...While in the yard, they no longer wear their collars and they just listen when I tell them to come inside...off property and off lead I have their collars on just incase I need to remind them that I did infact give a command and yes, they do need to listen I dont give a command that I cant back up and all my collars are to me is an invisible leash But because I made the decesion to use my collars I 100% doesnt mean that I need the help from a professional trainer....