i totally agree with you dan, they for sure did not originate in east asia, although i would not use your analogy to backup what you say. the exaggerated dogs and other animals very likely have nothing to do with people who used working dogs in tibet long ago. however tibet is not the place where LGD originated first. i think the exaggerated dogs you know see have a lot to do with the really weird chines culture. the worst things i have ever seen concerning dogs and their treatment came from china. :@ the origins of mastiffs and LGDs is central asia, especially the caucasus. (caucasus is more or less both europe and central asia)