[quote1255943891=admin] [quote=Astibus"][quote="TMmum]Times have changed, attitudes and family status have changed when it comes to dogs of all breeds. Jobs for which breeds were bred 100+ years ago are no longer in need. Many MANY breeds are taking up the job of housedog/ companion as apposed to guardian/hunting/retrieving/ ect... While to see a dog doing what it was bred to do initially is great to see, honestly a dog so fierce that no one could approach it safely is in no way desirable in todays day in age. Thats just my feelings on it.[/quote]That's all fine and understandable. My only question would be, WHY get a TM then? I mean, why not go for a Golden Retriever or a Newfie perhaps? I hear Bernese Mountaindogs are big, fluffy and nice companions. Why did you choose a TM? Just curious. :) Gary, the quoted passage of Mr. Bennet reminds me of this dog... resembling more the type of today's Sar rather than today's TM...;) [/quote] I have no idea as to why I have to answer my reasoning for getting a TM based on what I said. The OP asked "Whats your take" and seeing as though no one seemed to have a take on it, I figured I would add mine. I will however. I do not really like Goldens, too easy going for my taste and well everyone and their grandma has one it seems. Same with GSD just too common, my heart is always going to be with Rottweilers, however with their popularity as byb cash cows. I figured I would be doing the breed a better service to continue with rescue efforts with them. I didn't want a Newfie as again, they are just a little to easy for my liking. For some reason BMD's had never crossed my mind. After doing some research on the TM and understanding their "attitudes" and commitment required for training, being that they are independant thinkers, and relatively un heard of. I saw a challenge. I would prefer a breed that needs a strong guiding hand as apposed to your every day CD Ch's. Also I really liked the idea of being in the show ring with this breed in particular, smaller community of conformation showing TM's would make for less of a political show venture than my previous one with Boxers. I could go on and on for my reasoning, but I'll stop there. [blockquote]nahhh thats not even close...expand your mind and think...theres a bigger and more diversed world out there than your specific community or because you don't partake in the below activities...doesn't mean there isn't alot of folks out there doing them and using various breeds for thier intended functions... [/blockquote] Take a good look around, especially in North America. The numbers are not there for each job that dogs should be doing especially in North America, honestly now, do you really believe the same number or ratio of people are using their beloved family pets as they were bred? [blockquote]duck/goose huntin isn't going away = retrievers are doing what they've been bred to do... pheasant/quail hunting isn't going away = pointers/flushers hoghunting isn't going away = bulldogs used for holding and curdogs finding and baying... ranches/farms aren't going away = herders, lgd's and cowdogs doing thier thing as intended... protection and security needs with use of canines isn't going away due to crime = many breeds doing as intended and trained to do... plenty of opportunity for vermin control = terriers/earth dogs doing thier intended jobs... sighthounds/lurchers are still used for coursing and from hunting to sar = various hounds used for tracking the only one i can quickly think of is "deer hounds"...don't know where that is legal any more...but various breeds that were used for deer are inturn used in hoghuntin or crosses for such...[/blockquote] again the ratio of fanciers of specific breeds to workers of specific breeds have changed dramatically. In a suburban or city setting where would these breeds do this? However, my "take" on it may just "be an excuse" but the demographics of 100 years ago vs today are different In MANY ways. Does this mean I agree with the way working breeds are ending up? NO, I said in my first reply that I loved seeing dogs doing what they were bred to do. However a TM as described above would just be too much of a liability in this day in age. I mean look what has happened to the "bullies" especially here in Ontario. Should breeds be encouraged to be aggressive if they were bred to be eons ago? And also end up on the BSL lists? [/quote1255943891] Please allow me here a comment. IT is really strange for someone to get a dog for ...harder handling and asking for softer temperament. I mean why to make you life more difficult if you are NOT suppose to use the benefit of the specific breed? fierce temperament. Also i think we should not generalize like is not desirable a dog with fierce temperament in our days? Who says so and why, for istance is very desirable by me, as long as FIERCE CRIMINALS exists, actually crime rate is higher than ever IN OUR MODERN DAYS, specially in urban areas. So, my opinion is to care more for the softening of criminals (even by using fierce dogs which are far away more safe for neigboor's kid than his gun is for our kid, which he choosed for his defence, check statistics worlwide daily deaths because of gun accidents vs guard dogs, comparison is lethal by definition), than the softening of guard dog breeds. Finally my opinion also is that breeders will be entitled to srive for the softening of a guard dog breed when criminals becomes softer, till then its their obligation to stive to breed for sharper, harder and more fierce temperament, compared to the past, as exactly the modern crime is. Even if the crime start to be softer and limited, guard dog breeds should continue to be bred for the hardest and true temperament, to my opinion, as a recognition and appreciation to the breed 's instinct and character, for so munch offered to the humanity against criminality. I totaly agree with Astibus, those people they don't like big guard dogs should pick st. Bernards, Newfoundlands etc, but they damage the breed if they contribute any how to the softening of the temperament. Thousands of dedicated generations both humans and dogs struggled up to establish this trait/instict ito THEIR breed. NONE has the right to degenerate this out. Just my opinion Regards