Obi looks I suspect first on that list, then information that may have started out as truthful but then was bent along the way, with a little bit of assumptive facts thrown in and we end up with a mess. I think some people do go away having learned something while others discard us as show breeders ruining a breed, sad because I know i have learned through these debates over the years from both sides just wish others would really listen to what we all have to say instead of thinking we are defending sickly dogs and only care about the amount of wrinkle. I would never want someone that does not care for the breed to be turned into a mastino fancier because of anything I personally said, but I would like for a person to go ok this info is coming from the horses mouth no I think the breed is ugly and its not for me but it isnt as bad as I thought it was :)