Gaio Del Gheno at 8 Months

Obi he really looks good for 8 months,it is amazing how they change at this point...Sam can look totally different from week to week or so. Also I think I can SEE him growing sometimes 8O lol. Many people dont like this stage in Neos...I think it is amazing to see them going through this stage,take lots of pics,so when he is few years old,you can look back at his development. Specially if you going to breed him. He is very handsome, keep the pics coming....

He is looking good! Keep up the good work.

He does look great Obi, Can't wait to see the others!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: it is a challenge to take a good pics... you right about that...but you are doing just fine we enjoy them!!! :wink:

No pressure Obi...pics or video.. lol :D Thanks for sharing the pics with me,talk soon. :P

Nice!

I think you are doing better with the pics Obi,try to get little lower with the camera so he is more on your level.I sometimes even get to the ground to take a good pic when Sam is laying down. :D Gaio is growing very nicely .Thank you for sharing post them on MT too.

:D Beautiful Neo. Owned by 4 pits, but I do like any Mastiff type dog. They're just so majestic.

Good thick bones on that boy!

nice looking boy friend!!!!!!!!!!!!

Growing Real Nice!!! He looks Great :D

Sad to see what happened to 98% of the Mastini, today they are so fat and immovable, unbelievable. :x

oh dear lord give me strenght to ignore the idiots of the world I am going to go feed my fat neos

LOL I am going to try really hard, turning over a new leaf lol your boy looks really good, I enjoyed seeing him mature very interesting please post more as he grows

[quote=Drooln]oh dear lord give me strenght to ignore the idiots of the world I am going to go feed my fat neos[/quote] Look, it wasn´t an offense to your dog. A Korean Dosa Mastiff is a relatively new created breed, and if someone like them, fine. But when you look how a Neo looked like 10 or 20 years ago and how they look now (most of them), than it´s really sad (especially for an Italian like me), you can´t deny this fact. I didn´t attack you verbally, so I don´t like it when you call me indirectly an idiot, OK, perhaps I am an idiot, but that´s another point... :lol: joking apart, I just don´t like the progress of the Neo (but also with many other breeds, it´s not only the Neo), I would like to you know, why you don´t agree with me, regards, -Luigi-

I can give you some examples what I mean: -more than 80 % of those dogs have diseases like HD, arthrosis, heart problems, etc. a Neo normally is a very full of spirits breed of dog, but they can´t live like they would be like to live, similar to many English Bulldogs today, because of dyspnea and their lack of agility - Neo´s like that aren´t so strong like they used to be, smaller and weaker breeds like the CC or the Presa Canario (working dogs not show dogs) would whip the floor with Neo´s like that, because of their speed, agility, etc. and I could go on with more examples! Like I wrote, I don´t mean your dog, because I don´t know you and your dog, it wouldn´t be fair to judge a dog only by his look, perhaps I made a mistake with my first comment because I wrote it in your thread and you misunderstood it that I automatically mean you, it meant it IN GENERAL, I hope you understand what I mean, regards, -Luigi-

Luigi, I will not say that your wrong in the whole, because the breed within it is dysplasia's and heart issues and skin problems, no one has ever tried to say they didnt, they have problems the same as any breed, but I do not think these problems arise at the rate that many think it does, I think many would be let down by a look at breeders vet records, I know first hand that sometimes you do get dogs with major issues but I think healthy ones outnumber them. Your percentages where do you get your facts from, a breeder you know ? or personal experience ? If I was to go by my dogs that I have owned over the years your stats are wrong, and I dont think just because the dogs lived with me something amazing occured and they were problem free, with as many different lines as I have had if the breed was as sickly as everyone claims then my instances would of been higher. I would have to sit down and do some serious thinking about how many dogs I have owned since the start of my involvment with the breed, how many pups produced co owned dogs and rescues passing through , I can tell you that I have had 1 case of hip dysplasia severe and the dog was put down 6 instances of seizures ( idiopathic ) in a litter of pups early in my breedings 1 case of ocd in a bred by pup 1 case of cardiomyopathy in a male I imported 1 case of hod in a male I imported 1 slipped disk at age 9 in a female cherry eye has been sporadic probably occuring about 20-25% of the time 1 torn acl injury caused 1 luxating patella injury caused no surgery to fix it, healed on its own, she is alive and 5 and no signs of problems no entropian or ectropian 1 demodex in a rescue male 1 bred by sold pup just died no autopsy done so I dont know the reason 9 cases of bloat 1 bred by pup that had both hip and elbow dysplasia 1 case wobblers Bloat is my biggest killer and number 1 worry within the breed. The above numbers are over a course of 17 years give or take, probably 30-35 adult mastini ( thats a rough number now I am curious and will have to research the exact number ) of dogs I have bought, and those bred and kept by me, or other wise passed through my care then litters of pups 12 pups, 14 pups 9 pups, 7 pups, 7 pups, 3 single pup litters= 3 pups, 5 pups going by the above I do not see 80% of joint problems. the highest % is bloat now this is debatable if it is enviromental or has a genetic base, I am 50/50 on the issue it can go away, I do know the majority of my bloat cases occured in a short time span of about 2 years, I dont know if it is over with but one element has been deleted from the scenario, the food ( exceed ). I have made more vet visits for routine care then for diesease, I have also made more vet visits for wounds from fighting or mishaps then diesease, so when I disagree on a message board about the health of the neo it is from my own experience with them. I have many friends in the breed and I dont know of anyone who has had a high incidence of genetic issues, I know we all have a bad run of luck a unhealthy litter for instance but most learn and cull from their breeding program or start over. Now I dont know if the breeder or dogs you know are different and if someone is having a 80% rate of dysplasia in their kennel they need to cull the whole works because that is a ridiculous number. This year after I lost the male to heart problems, the rest of my vet visits have been routie for shots and wormings, 1 visit for a skin condition which was a allergy issue, a recheck of the patella girl and had some maintenance and screenings done at the repro vet, pretty boring actually lol It does not bother me when people find my dogs ugly or not appealing to their tastes or even the breed as a whole being attractive to them, to each their own, but it is getting ridiculous the way people respond on this board to any neo photo that is posted, I think if people were honest one of their first reasons of dislike is the dogs looks, they dont like the droopy skin first off and the dog just doesnt appeal to them, but other then a couple of websites full of misinformation from a single persons view they dont have any of facts to go on. I think if these same people visited a kennel breeding nice solid dogs and spoke with breeders they would change their mind regarding issues, may still think the dogs are ugly but at least their would be honesty in their words. The hostility from others is boring, and instead of jumping on a post with rude words and insults more could be gained if people would not assume and ask instead, I always ask what experience a person has to back up their words, yet very seldom will anyone answer me honestly, they always beat around the proverbial bush, post the photos taken 50 years ago of dogs who were probably F1 cross's and sound angry about how the "show" breeders are ruining the breed, but never giving me a honest answer to my question, how do you know what experience do you have, did you read this or owned a neo with a issue, one day someone will come out and say 1 of two things, yes I owned neos with problems or 2 no i dont have any experience with the breed its just what I heard. Luigi I am more then willing to have a nice conversation regarding the neo, no you didnt attack me verbally but you did my breed which through out the years I have always maintained a great passion for, here I will extend the olive branch and apologize for directly calling you an idiot :) now as long as you do not insult my breed with mis-information we will get along fine, however I am very interested in knowing the base for your figures please tell us more about how you came to this conclusion.

Obi looks I suspect first on that list, then information that may have started out as truthful but then was bent along the way, with a little bit of assumptive facts thrown in and we end up with a mess. I think some people do go away having learned something while others discard us as show breeders ruining a breed, sad because I know i have learned through these debates over the years from both sides just wish others would really listen to what we all have to say instead of thinking we are defending sickly dogs and only care about the amount of wrinkle. I would never want someone that does not care for the breed to be turned into a mastino fancier because of anything I personally said, but I would like for a person to go ok this info is coming from the horses mouth no I think the breed is ugly and its not for me but it isnt as bad as I thought it was :)

droolyn, you listed 26 instances , out of 30-35 dogs. whether some of the dogs had more than one of these happen to them, which is worse, it doesnt matter , it is still a very high amount of degenerative health issues, not counting how many pups you got rid of that carry the genes, but you have lots of experience with your breed and you can contribute to the gene pool by better selection from what you have learned. i am sorry to hear that it is so difficult to get any consistancy of health from yours or impoted stock, but i see you are dedicated because you love the neopolitan mastiff. what sort of defects do you let slide and not cull for the sake of having dogs to breed to hope for pups without the defects, like cherry eye for example?

you are reading it wrong, maybe I wrote it wrong I am not counting that out 30-35 adult dogs 1 had the hip dysplasia the pups I had one produced by me who had ed and hd there is 92 dogs in the list ( give or take the pups are accurate though ) so that is 2 incidents of dysplasia out of 92 dogs if you count the ocd that is 3 dogs in 92 with joint problems HOD I dont count in this catagory because I felt as if it was nutrition based now 3 dogs out of 92 is not a high rate of a genetic problem your reading it differently then how it should be and concluded inaccurate facts, 26 instances with some that were by injury from 92 dogs is what you have to look at, not a high rate when you look at it how it should. I wouldnt disclude a dog for cherry eye, I am much more worried about HD then a gland, so HD, demodex wouldnt breed, entropian/ectropian would have to research the reason for it occuring a genetic point or enviromental, ocd again would research it nutrition injury or is there a pattern in the lines, bloat I am researching this now, enviromental or genetic worth the risk or no ? thyroid issues is the levels really off is the dog young, old something else going on, a lot of research involved and debating, something serious such as dcm I wouldnt even think about it or hd or demo. Even in the best planned litters things can go wrong, both parents hd free just increases your chance of not having affected offspring, but what happens if you get the grandsire effect and he passed own hd, then all the testing is nul and void and you have hd in a little of pups. No one can guarantee a dog will be genetic issue free all you can do is research test and try and come out on top and if your lucky it comes together like it should sometimes mother nature steps in and you have bad results. If someone could have a health problem free breeding program then they are the 8th wonder of the world

also as far as consistancy in health it is there you have to remember all of this occured over 17 plus years it hasnt just been recent, we are talking a lot of years lol I feel old when looking at it that way, but it wasnt like I had problems one after another it comes in waves, I went a long time with nothing going on but had a incident here and there, the two most troubling occurances was with the seizure pups which I started over and then the bloat which was when 2 pups from a litter of 5 bloated and this was a year in between the incidents with those two and the 3rd littermate occured during the time, enough pups with issues to stop the line and refocu and research what went wrong and if I am dealing with a genetic issue or outside effects, the rest of the bloat cases 3 in the last 4 years and the other 4 spread back in time, so it isnt like I had 92 dogs and all at one time everything on the list happened lol boy that would suck if it did, 2 bloat cases happened 16 and 14 years ago

Drooln, my "statistic" was just a appraisal from what I know. Of course there are serious breeder out there, no doubt. And you´re also right that not only the Neo have that problems, I just think it´s a shame, because normally the Neo is/ was a very healthy breed (especially for such a big breed).

[quote="OBI1"]It still beats me why the Mastini is singled out for bashing always??? It's not the breed with the worst health issues!!! The continual bashing of the breed puts breeders, owners and fanciers on the defensive and valuable contributions and insights are lost. It doesn't bother me when my dogs are bashed, but what bothers me is the knowledge I don't get because someone more knowledgeable is discouraged from getting involved in the ensuing cat and mouse game. :( ps. [color=red]Thanks Luigi for your clarifications[/color].[/quote] No problem! :hi

And I want to clarify things here: I don´t hate the Neo or so, it´s the opposite, my first molosser was a Neo, and it´s definitely one of my favourite breeds out there (along with the CC, CAO, TM, and the Boxer). It could be that some here hate the Neo and/ or trash talk about him, but I´m surely not one of them, I just want to discuss about molossers and I´m not hiding facts, I want to tell what I think/ know... Regards, -Luigi-

Honestly I think as a breed in general it is healthier now then say 10 years ago, I think in part to more breeders being more selective with their breeding stock and since then the numbers have increased you have more to work with. I dont doubt there are unhealthy dogs in the breed but hope as the years pass we can continue in a more positive outlook when it comes to health and we will always have more healthy then unhealthy traits Looks have changed since their earlier years and you can see it as it has peaked, in the past 5 years the norm of people praising very overdone dogs has lessened and now it seems a more blanced dog is to be the accepted type, this I am happy to see as wrinkle and mass were getting a little too abundant, I do not have problems with this type of neo, although not for me as long as it is healthy with good temperament I say let a breeder express themselves, so I am interested to see it in another 10 years and see where it is. Temperament too will be interesting to watch the breed is so diverse in its looks which is fine but I would like to see a consistant temperament in the breed not too hard yet not soft which I think is also going well.

a question for you if you know, since your in italy, what was the reason for infusion of different blood in the neo in recent years, last 20 or so. Do you have any knowledge of this ? I would like to know if the health had been lost and new blood was needed to increase this or was it for cosmetic reasons such as size ?