American Bully

I think the dog above looks very impressive, but you need to bear in mind that looks aren't the be all end all. Physically, the dog certainly has the tools to be a manstopper, but that doesn't mean it has the mental attributes to be one. Here's the issue I see us facing as molosser owners. In one word... Denial. Just because a dog looks very impressive and is physically very strong doesn't make them a personal protection dog, a working dog, etc. I hear over and over again from molosser owners (and pet owners in general) that make excuses as to why their dogs fall short. I'll give some examples from my personal experience so hopefully I don't offend anyone. I have cani corsi. My male is very althletic for his size and honestly one of the healthiest dogs I've ever had. He's 130 lbs and easily runs 4-5 miles at a time. Aside from the occassional diarrhea and skin acne, he's rarely been sick. We did Penn Hip on him and he's in the 80th percentile for the breed (.45 and .48 DI if i remember correctly). He's a great pet and I love him dearly. I bought him as breed quality, but in my opinion, he's not a breeding prospect. We did some protection work with him, but he's very lacking in prey drive. He does have defense and has been through a few protection sessions. However, he doesn't have a lot of aptitude for it. He'll bite a sleeve, but isn't overly comfortable doing it. He's strong as hell. In fact, I couldn't physically hold him back during agitation. Do his shortcomings mean he's a bad dog? No. Does it mean I'm going to dump him in a shelter? No. I got him as a pet. I don't know much about working dogs and I didn't get him to be one, so I don't think it's fair to expect him to be one. My wife married me when I was a geeky analyst. Should she dump me because I'm not a Green Beret? I sure as shit hope not. Do my dog's shortcomings mean I won't breed my dog? Yes. I grew up with herders. My whole life we had GSD's. The last one's mother had a Schutzhund title and his father was a search and rescue dog. He had so much drive, he drove us nuts. I'm well aware of the difference between herders and molossers, but I'm asking you one thing. Will you focus on function over form, performance over legend? They're laughing at us right now. Go to any Schutzhund, PSA, or Ringsport club and tell them you own an LGD, AB, APBT, Cane Corso, Dogo Argentino, Fila, or anything aside from a GSD, Malinois, or Dutch Shepherd. Watch the look on their face and their body language as you listen to their response. If they're polite, their posture will tell you all you need to know. If not, their words will. Saying your dog would do better in a real situation because the test is artificial and designed for someone else (herders) is like saying you could be an MD or PHD when it really mattered. There are molossers out there that will work and perform, but us all having our heads in the sand won't help our chosen breeds. I issue a challenge to myself and all of you reading this. Will you improve your breed of choice? Will you set objective breeding (performance and health) criteria that all dogs in your program will satisfy without question? Will you washout a dog regardless of the lines behind them or how much you paid for them if they do not satisfy your critieria? Will you test your stock for health, nerves, and stability? Are you part of the problem or part of the solution?...

Nothing will have the drive of something like a malinois... thats pretty obvious, but I really don't understand the point of your post or how it relates to the current thread. Its clear that you have an agenda of some kind, but what that agenda is, is beyond me. If it wasn't for the fact you actually own one, I would assume it was just an attack on molossers.

nice Bullies, you know that prong collar is on wrong right?

My female is only 14 weeks old, so I can not comment to much on her temperament right now. having said that, form what I observed in the last 6 weeks that she's been with us, her fight drive is high so is her prey drive. Will keep playing with her using flirt pole and rugs to test her drive, until she is old enough to be tested in PP.

hey cawkazn, that is a nice picture of you and your dog in the desert. which desert is that, california?? coming to think of it, i don't think i enjoy anything more than a long hike in the wilderness with my dog. can't wait for my girls to be old enough to start the long challenging hikes :)

thanks. can you let me know when you have the chance where i can find that trail? i'd love to take my girl there...

Hikes are awesome I wish I had a trail to take my dogs. There's one near me but it's full of people and ticks. The prong collar is too low on the neck, if your dog is still pulling with it, it could really hurt it's neck with it. The prong collar should be worn tight and much higher. Now if your dog feels the click of the collar and stops pulling then it's fine. If yor dog pulls like nothing is on it's neck then it's not good for the throat.

JMO but not exercising your dogs for extended periods and then taking them on 5 hour hikes in the desert with poorly fitted prong collars is almost comedically cruel and weird on many levels. Like you're doing everything wrong and it's hard to know where to begin. Again, JMO.

You should get a harness like this : It is custome fitted, very comfortable and the dog gets to pull freely as if he was wearing a weight pull harness.

Well I guess the point of a prong collar would be he is trying to stop them from pulling? Harnesses encourage pulling. Really I think a normal collar should be enough if you know how to get a dogs attention and get your point across.

I'm not going out of my way to attack you, in fact I was very reluctant to and didn't want to but the bottom line is - that sucks, and I'm just hoping my "attack" can encourage you to alter your situation.

to answer your question cawkazn, i am located in Los Angeles. I too love to take my dog to the most remote locations and let her be free. the desert is great for that, so are the mountains. With my previous dog, I have been on 10-12 hours hikes in great locations where nobody was around. When my current puppy reaches the right age, we will start doing does long hikes again. So, please feel free to let me know of some remote trails you may know of. Thanks.

Well one thing we can agree on is taking your dogs out in the remote wilderness is awesome. Really what it's all about as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't even want dogs if I wasn't able to get out in the sticks with them. The wilderness and dogs go hand in hand for me and sounds like you two are the same.

Most Bullies are indeed junk, but don't right off the possibility just because most can't deliver. Most Neapolitans can't deliver on the breed's hype and history IMO, but I am still open to the idea. I may personally prefer a more well rounded athlete and more drive than most bullies could ever dream of having, but that doesn't mean that all of them are junk. I have seen a rare few that weren't all bad and that had SOME glimmer of hope. Unfortunately, the biggest problem is the people involved. Most people that THINK their dogs will protect really don't have any idea...so this means one would have to test the dogs themself. Also, let's not forget that Lucero's Jaws actually came from an unregistered AmStaff...which one could argue to be very similar to the larger and taller "bullies." The worst ones are going to be the ones that are overdone and short. A thick dog though can be hard to hurt, as they can be rather durable.

cawkazn, yes, i often go to angeles crest national forest. that is the best spot for remote hikes that is near LA, only 30 minutes drive. i've also been in your San Bernardino mountains very often, and waiting for my girl to get older before taking her there. i'll check google maps and see how it works. thanks

This link gives several of the reasons I'm not a fan of the American Bully. Too many dumbasses that have no idea what they're doing breeding them... http://www.workingpitbull.com/BuyerBeware.html

[quote1299523329=cawkazn] [quote1299471485=davidfitness83] My dog would be considered xxl due to this specifications, most of his siblings are standard bullies. However he is pretty tall, I think he has a slight ressamblance to a mastiff but like I said earlier all the dogs in his pedigree are show dogs therefore limiting his ability. [/quote1299471485] I have tested him in a way, he doesn't have a mouth to tug. Maybe the dog respects me too much but he lacks biting power. The dog doesn't have great stamina and he is also not the most agile dog. I didn't have a decoy come out and try to attack me to see if he can do the job. BUt from simple observation on basic acitivities I don't think he qualifies for a good working. I also got his hips tested and they did not score so well, he is more of a great beast friend household pet who looks intimidating but that cannot excel if I needed him to lol We love him and that's all that matters, but he is no working dog and I have yet to see an American Bully built to the ABKC standard that can perform as well as a working mastiff and bullbreed cross. I love the American BUlly for what they are, great companions and great pets. If I need a dog to deter intruders and protect me from a wild beast I am not going to count on my dog to do that job lol i understand what you are saying and agree with you but i wouldnt cut him short just because of that. if you tested him out and he did his job, regardless of breed or pedigree, if the dog is doing his job, hes doing his job. [/quote1299523329]

I have tested him in a way, he doesn't have a mouth to tug. Maybe the dog respects me too much but he lacks biting power. The dog doesn't have great stamina and he is also not the most agile dog. I didn't have a decoy come out and try to attack me to see if he can do the job. BUt from simple observation on basic acitivities I don't think he qualifies for a good working. I also got his hips tested and they did not score so well, he is more of a great beast friend household pet who looks intimidating but that cannot excel if I needed him to lol We love him and that's all that matters, but he is no working dog and I have yet to see an American Bully built to the ABKC standard that can perform as well as a working mastiff and bullbreed cross. I love the American BUlly for what they are, great companions and great pets. If I need a dog to deter intruders and protect me from a wild beast I am not going to count on my dog to do that job lol

I know the owner of both dogs, I personally talk to her on another board. She is finding an avenue to give her dogs a workout. Knuckles and Victor are some really nice looking dogs, Knuckles is my favorite XXL in the Bully world. I can ask her if you hav any questions about her dogs, I think she does this with her dogs more as a game than reallistically hoping that her dogs will do something.

What do you meant they are going to break some teeth?