[quote=4myneo]We have seen these pics before, no need for them again. OK- So if MOST OEM's are not suitable for the work you are doing how did you go about finding "good" ones? What separates them from any others on the street? When I think OEM, I think big oafy, friendly "gentle giant" like most people. How are yours different?[/quote] I knew of one, "Ox", owned by a mastiff breeder who also boarded my dogs years ago. "Ox" wasnt one of the breeding dogs though (those were lovely oafs), "Ox" was a big, brindle, active monster of a dog, scary aggressive at the fence and I don't scare easily. I think he was a rescue dog. The owner is up in years now but I'll see if I can find out where he came from. Knowing what I know now, his type dog would be in demand.