[blockquote]I don't know which dogs you have in mind specifically but if I had no other option I'd take one of filachick's pups over some of the walruses/neos I've seen in pics here and elsewhere.[/blockquote] silly your contradicting yourself in the above, the pups look like they have a good amount of skin, good amount of bone and from looking at them now I dont think they will be very far off the mark of the extreme overdone horrid neos you speak of, leggier probably but I am betting they will have quite a bit of wrinkle and mass to them when adults ...............whoopsies maybe not walruses but they wont be the most athletic either