[quote1320855428=Crnosrce1] Alan, There isn't a breed out there that isn't plagued with health issues of some form. That being said, yes Boxers and EB's do have some bad health problems, but there are lines out there who still keep a good healthy dog. Dogos are prone to deafness and have little to no man aggro, but I'm not using them to bring Man work out. EB's cross like, as I very recently was told by yet another dogman, hidden gold. I've seen many a EB cross dog who was a hellion and healthy and lived long. I'd be using them for their willingness to take on anything. I'd be using the EBT for their ridiculous bite, strong will and personality, and the raw power they possess and how well they cross and are easily hidden in the cross. Boxers are athletic as shit, and some are still very much a functional bulldog. Again, these are the breeds Id be looking to find the correct INDIVIDUAL animals for use, not just any sh!tacular example I can get my hands on. I'm not opposed to using a Staffy Bull if the right example happens my way. I am not opposed to throwing some gundog like pointer in there, again if the right dog comes along. Tonedog, I understand and agree with just about everything you just posted. I'd call them an AB, because I have seen breeders start entire bloodlines on these cross dogs without a single drop of "ab" blood in there, and they have world champions. I won't divuldge what lines, but they are most deffinitely out there. The BEST bulldogs I have seen in an extremely long time are owned by a member here, Realdoggesyndicate. I saw them in person, I had nothing bad to say about them, and they're straight catchdog bred to catchdog, with NO brood bitches(meaning bitches work even if they have say old pups) for 40 years. [/quote1320855428] I find this post odd, considering your fore-mentioned post on consistency. You speak of consistency, yet you advocate the English Bulldog as a foundation dog for a performance breeding program? I hate to sound confrontational, but I'd consider NONE of the breeds you mentioned as foundation dogs. As I mentioned earlier, it's quite simple to have an esoteric conversation about "which breeds" you'd choose in order to achieve the goal of XYZ. It's been my experience that in the event these esoteric conversations come to fruition and become breeding "programs," the result is commonly that the progeny of such "programs" end up on shelter floors. This is merely the result of genetics. It is erroneous to believe that if you interbreed several breeds based on what's considered their optimal traits, that the resultant dogs will have more than an average chance of displaying these optimal traits with any consistency. You mention the English Bulldog as a dog "willing to take on anything." You'd use the EBT for their "ridiculous bite and raw power." Dogos you say, "have little no no man aggro." The Boxer you'd use because, "they're athletic as shit." So the resultant dogs would be athletic as shit dogs, with ridiculous bites and raw power, and will take on anything." Correct? Let's say this...Assume that you take your supreme examples of said breeds, and that you devise a formula as to the what % of which breed will go into the mix and which respective genders will be used. The English Bulldog manifests itself by throwing pups with proportionally large craniums that get stuck in the birth canal. Oh, and those heads also have extremely undershot, non-functional jaws which render drastically reduced the bite power of the EBT. In addition, there was epilepsy a generation back. Unfortunately, you were unaware of that. So that's been passed. Oh and the structure of the Boxer, with it's exagggeratedly deep and narrow chest...Well the resultant diminished lung capacity that comes with that form was also reproduced in these dogs. As was its weak heart. Combined with the English Bulldog's inability to breath cleanly...Not a good combo. As for the influence of the Dogo in this "program," well it's quite inaccurate to say the breed has "little to no man aggro." The Dogo is typically an incredibly rank driven breed that shows sharp handler sensitivity during man-work. I know you mentioned you'd not use the Dogo in such a capacity. However, those traits were passed as well. That doesn't bode well for any prospective owners with young children in the house. The dogs did inherent the keen tracking nose of the Dogo. However, their forms once again betrays them in that they become winded quite quickly when cold scenting whilst on the run. So yeah, you do the math and tell me if the above scenario is remotely possible...