Hi Lolawales, I agree with you thats what i was trying to get across in my earlier post. These huge wrinkly dogs from Taiwan i believe are the modern creation, made to satisfy modern fascination with size (same is happening with CO and CAO) were the ability to perform the task that dog dog was orginally used for have been forgotten. It funny cos these dogs are widely (and on this site) regarded as the real TM, when there is no evidence to support this. I think the dogs currently in the uk and europe are mostly real good quality (i have 1), but i think that it is only a matter of time before more mastiff blood is add to the TM lines.