This is all getting really out of hand now. I've have sat back and read (disappointedly) for the last few weeks, and I have to say it's been a sad thing to witness. I hope that, though all of this, it doesn't get lost that one of the best things about this site is that it provides a place where people, like me, who are genuinely looking for advise from good and experienced people (like babigirl and tonedog and many many others) before taking, what should be considered, the huge leap of bringing one of these fine animals in to our homes, can come and talk to people who have years of experience owning, breeding, and working with these breeds before making what could end up being a huge mistake. In my short time here I made only ONE post and with in ONE day I received responses from experienced people who gave me real and actionable advise that I count as having been incredibly helpful. I took that advise and now I'm proud to report that very soon I will be welcoming a beautiful (though not "show quality") DB into my family who will be by my side as I explore the wilderness of Central Europe. To sit back now and watch as people who, in my estimation, seem to know nothing about the breeds of which they discus, other than what it is that they have read on the internet or heard from friends and family, openly cheering at the fact that they have driven away a member of the board like wolf who, for all his crassness, could not in my estimation be accused of not being, at the very least, a knowledgeable dog man and therefor by extension and valuable resource for vital information for people like me, is utterly disgraceful. I don't know "sunny-AK" or bvgri (or for that matter any of you) personally so my upbringing prohibits me from making any personal comments on his/her/their character. I will say however that the behavior I've seen displayed has at times been mind boggling. And can be off-putting to newer members, like me, who only come here because of the experience and the seriousness of it's more senior members. Who knows how many people and dogs have avoided being put into bad situations over the years because of this site. Or how much heartache has been avoided, or how much money,time, and energy saved because of the good advise given here. This is a good site with a great deal of good information. I hope it stays that way. Otherwise, we all may as well just read the silly comments at the end of every youtube dog video. I know I'm new and relatively unknown, so my two cents may not be worth much more than that, but hears to hoping that all this will stop and that this site will return to it's place as a beacon of knowledge and sharing in this god foresaken place we call the internet. sooner than later! Thanks guys. hope you're all well and that you stay that way. Cheers, chris