[quote=RubberDucky]Perhaps your used to working mastiffs, but there are some down right pansies comming out of the pet world. I could buy one getting attacked and not putting up that much of a fight.[/quote] I think many of the people here, myself included, tend to think in terms of poroper specimens of any given breed when we read these threads. You and Mike are both correct in you thoughts. As there was not an accurate discrition we all are just speculating.