Also redcoat a lot of these 'big time breeders' hide the fact that Abarco is the foundation of their lines, as supposd to early on, the arbaco 'line' was what the streets would consider 'hot' so their is Arbaco all over the united stateds and that is why a lot of people usually buy from across seas. Not saying that over seas not adding anything to their mix, but its one thing to be tricked and another thing to be flat out STUPID. Another thing these Arbaco offsprings are consistently producing "grey" pups, so if that doesnt tell you in was a neo mix then nothing else should. Lets say the presa did throw the "grey" jean every now and then from either dog you wanna pick out of the re-creation process, the gene would be recessive, therefore not showing up in every litter by offspring of offspring from Arbaco. Does anyone have anyother pics of him? That one pic is driving me crazy!