A good read, thanks for posting it! :D

Yeah, I've seen these pcitures before. it's kind of funny how the artists used some amateur techniques. Still, the dog is very familiar to our eyes.

[quote=brazillianbandogge"][quote="RedEagle]Yeah, I've seen these pcitures before. it's kind of funny how the artists used some amateur techniques. Still, the dog is very familiar to our eyes.[/quote] This artists was not amateur , in fact his was one of the best professional from his time , and indeed he was very acurate in drawning like real picture. If you had seen before without read the book you probably think that was a painter in the street but those artist were naturalist , a real rare one. But you right ...the Bull terrier looks like our APBT or Staffs but the old terrier i do not know modern breed like those .[/quote] Wait, do you know who the artist was and can you verify how he was the best proffessional of his time. You know art well?

why not use a working airedale and create a huge bull n terr?

[quote=workman43113]why not use a working airedale and create a huge bull n terr?[/quote] I would LOVE to see a male airedale crossed into a good old style hines bred ab biitch!!! I would absolutly LOVE IT!!

Well it absolutely makes sense being that the original bull n terriers were created to add more speed and agility to the bulldog. A working airedale is faster and a little more agile than a performance AB and will allow the AB to retain the size. Not to mention both have extremely high prey drive. I actually know a guy from a hunting forum I go to that actually takes his bitch airedale xena and runs down and kills coyotes. I have pics if anyone is interested.

YA DUDE, lets see them pix!!!

Sorry it took me so ling fella's. Here they are. I got quite interested in the airedale after a buddy of mine was using one hogging. It wasn't no bulldog or a catch dog really but more of an all around dog who could do a little of everything and somethings better than most dogs. At any rate imagine a 100-125# pitbull that would be something awesome and could potentially be achievable with this mix. I have some other thoughts and theorys on what a pairing of an AB and airedale could do potentially.

workman, would you happen to be aqquanted with mark baldassare?? He is an avid airedale man, and i believe ive seen your pictures elsewhere, possibly the working airedale board?? If so, im vucjak on there Mike

http://xsorbit26.com/users5/traditionalworkingairedaleterrier/index.php This is not marks site, but i thought i may have seen those photos there, i could be wrong. It is a great site tho Mike

I know of Mark but wouldn't say acquainted. TWAT forum is good, lol

i would have to say that crossing an ab to a jagdt or patt would be great, but since both carry the wire haired gene, and being a pit is smooth coated, not gonna work. In temper and physicall yes, but not the actuall look. I think if you cross a good game EBT from ireland or scotland or serbia, youd have a closer idea to what the ""fresh"" pit terrier was. Id actually lean towards a painter/margentina dog over the soctt, as they have a great deal more pit in them, hence being closer to what your striving for. Id also like to see the ab crossed into say a airedale or a BRT, THAT would give you a high quality all around farm style dog, that will not only have all the guts and determination and physicall abilities to overcome anything, but they will bond ridiculously strong to the owner, and be highly protective and trainable.... Im really really starting to like this idea, and i HOPE somebodey does this combo, NOW!!!! Mike

[quote]Yes, but if the point is to "recreate" the bull and terrier dogsd of England it would be much better to start with original components. A "Heide Terrier [Jaghd Terrier crossed into a working Airdale) doesn't necessarily have long hair. Check out the following website: The Working Airedale Terrier website http://xsorbit26.com/users5/traditionalworkingairedaleterrier/index.php?topic=83.0 I have selected a thread concerning this mix. Hint: these dogs did not have the wavy or broken coat. Cross that back with a Patterdale and you'll probably be as close to whatever little demon was crossed into the working Bulldog at the time. There is a strain of working Airedale being bred by[/quote] Yes sir, i whole heartedly agree that some jagdt and airedales dont, being the red line style of airedale has no wiring, but i believe a tiny bit of a beard to its face and thats all. My idea, and i will say this, that if it doesnt happen within the next 5 yrs, i WILL do this, by crossing a great ab, like Vinays dog baine, to a female BRT, youd end up with, i think, the epitome of an all around dog, very trainable, very protective, very tough dog who should be about 95-105 lbs full grown, being more than enough dog for most peoples requirements. And talk about drive, if you use the correct ab lines, they themselves have more heart than needed by most people, and to cross it with a dog like the brt, who is a GIANT terrier, being ALL heart, they will have the abilities to be excellent PP dogs,sport dog, drovers, and i willing to bet they can be trained to be lgd. They may not bond to the flock as a sar or co would, but damn, theyd be nice to watch. And man, i mean they will have a great movement, as watching bullies for years run and jump, its like watchig miniature deer run, no wasted movments or effort. And seing a few BRT go, its quite similar, cept they have more of that IM ON THE LOOSE, EVERYONE SHOULD SEE ME thing going on. I think that this is a crossing that should be done, deserves to be done, and if nobody else will, ill do it. My reason for doing this wouldnt necesarily be to create a new breed or anything like that, but to make an all around great utility style dog that should excell in this country, as many of the great dogs here get used incorrectly, and are earning undeserved reputations. Mike

OH HELL YES!!!!! Where are these people at in michigan, as i make a weekend trip up to lansing every month to visit friends, and id LOVE to come see the ranch and talk with the farmers, and possibly get this ball rolling, NOW!!! Mike