I would like to know from anyone how they calculate the whelp date when using fresh or frozen semen? Were all the necessary steps prior to whelp taken? I was under the understanding that 61 days is normal and once you get to 63 you go to the vet. The cost of a C section here is the price of one pup and priceless when it comes to the mother's health. I will give credit where credit due Phil was the one who discussed my female with me during the time of whelp because on my calculations with blood tests and everything else she whelped on day 62. Although 67 by vet's calculations. Vet did AI prior but the male mounted her 5 days later and my dog whelped naturally. I was very shocked afterwards when I was pulled to pieces on his site and named a BYB and questioned by 'I am Nobody' (which we know who that is). I truly believe instead of people glouting on others mishaps, it would be great if people were more open like Jess so that others can learn by others experience. And truly Phil this is a time that people cant comment on whatever happened when they werent present at the time of whelp. Dont you agree? Truly sorry for your loose. I hope Kat's female recovers well and Im sure the vet is looking after her. We dont know the circumstances (or maybe people do) she might work or maybe maybe she believes the dog is better off which I tend to agree if what I read is correct and she really didnt know what she was doing after all. I just hope that the next time Kat feels she wants to judge someone before she has had the experience then she should count to ten (or maybe 100) sleep on it and consider before writing anything. And yes John I believe that what you do to others comes back tenfold no matter whether it is good or bad.