Thanks Stacey and Robin I do understand that with frozen semen or even chilled fresh semen the window for conception is limited and necessary testing is very important to get your female pregnant. I asked my vet about the frozen semen and he said its very problematic and timing is everything. We have two vets which carry out this proceedure one is happy to thaw the semen and do ordinary AI and the other likes to put surgically, just preference and both said they have reasonable success. But if all necessary tests are carried out with the female and approximate day of ovulation is known then if you plan on a C section dont you take the dog to the vet around day 60? So Kat if the imformation is incorrect and you did all the necessary testing before and after the dog got pregnant and scanned and xrayed your female to get an exact day. What went wrong? Or what do you think went wrong? Genuine question. I had my female scanned.....no puppies (own vet) I had my female Xrayed.......no puppies (another vet with machine) Day 62 11 puppies.....go figure Natural birth. I lost one towards in the middle of whelping, he was breach and just didnt get out in time even with my help and the last one because we took her to the vet (3 hours after the last pup) with the puppies for a check up and found one was left behind. Obviously we checked her ourselves, but the vet said he was too large. Yes I did consider before she got pregant whether to have the puppies removed surgically but after being told twice by 2 different vets 'not pregnant'. I did not see the point to book the vet. Plus I have never had any dog I owned not give birth naturally. So Im a bit biased. She had had 2 phantom pregnancies prior. Collector of black socks. Like I said anything can go wrong anytime but it is good to prepare youself for any unforeseen circumstances which could have been within your control, other than that mother nature does its own thing from time to time and maybe that is a good thing. Whatever happened to two dogs getting together and tying 'natural' and whelping 'natural'. Or is it a too bigger want..... I for one would like the neos to do that and if achieved by many in a few years we have notched up something good for the breed. Just what I would like to see