[quote=Astibus] After a brief moment she turned around in disgust and walked away; none of the wolves even acknowledged his presence there after. [/quote] Unless you have mental telepathy, you are left to assume that is what the wolf thought...and personally, I think you are personifying the wolf too much. Now, if instead you would say the wolf wasn't concerned about your dog...that might be more rational. [quote1326766089=Tonedog] I for one am definitely not going to see eye to eye with you on this one Lee. I have very strong feelings about the topic, I agree with the scientists like coppinger who say man "creating" dogs is an arrogant myth, that we're really kidding ourselves to think we're like gods, rather than say sea anemones, or water buffalo (both of which are in relationships with other animals, animals that have adapted to being in that relationship with them. Clown fish and ox-pecker birds respectively). [/quote1326766089] There are many error in this post here... 1. While humans are not gods, we certainly have ILLUSTRATED the power and intelligence of dominion over so many aspects of other species...God given dominion or simply our evolutionary progression to be the most intelligent and powerful species on earth. 2. I already illustrated that mutualism does occur in synergistic relationships...but you failed to supply a single reference to ANY mutualistic relationship that included 3 species all at once without one of those species actually being humans that produced such a situation via artificial selection. 3. Science is not a person. It is a process. Anyone can call themself a scientist if they perform the right practice...and anyone that does NOT use that practice properly isn't being really scientific. You have to look at the WHOLE PICTURE. [quote1326766427=Astibus] Excellent!! And very much to the point! There isn't much to add from my part to further illustrate this position. Coming to think of it it's never been easy to accept a concept that puts humans further into their place. (i.e that the world doesn't revolve around humans' earth, that humans weren't special at all but evolved such as any rat, horse or insect did. That genetics isn't as trivial as we initially thought it is. The world of history is paved with scientific evidence chopping down the inflated self-perception of humans.) [/quote1326766427] The world doesn't revolve around humans...but we have certainly dominated the world more so than any other species...and via artificial selection we have certainly developed an inter-dependent relationship with nearly every species we have domesticated...and via artificial selection, we have even mutated those species to display behaviors to unproportionate levels that would never be seen in nature because it serves our interest. To deny this is NOT scientific...for the evidence is not just there...the proof is there. You just have to be willing to accept it. But, there is no skin off my back for those that don't wish to.