Ostrich, talking to you is like having a person ask what 2+2 is. Then I answer them and yet you ask again. I answer it again, and you ask again. The data you look for is already provided. If you don't want to look at it, that is fine...but then why ask? AlphaBlueBloodBulldog, Preacher-Man is a first generation Swinford. He was produced here...his mother is my 9 year old working class English Mastiff that we refer to as Eclipse (her registered name is Shadow...and Brad, my EM bitch happens to be OFAed good btw...here is her data from the OFA database... http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1074791#animal ) and she can still work. Preacher-Man's sire is out of legendary Sorrell's performance proven APBT stock straight from Bert Sorrell's yard and of pure Sorrells stock for many generations. Preacher-Man is performance proven as well.