Alano Reality check

But thats just to pictures of to different dogs... You can't use that as some kind of evidence.

Boomslang is nice dog!! :D , but is a ancient and true spanhis alano? or ancient canary dog?. :? Please, watch ancients and true spanish alano -in spain-. http://lostarantos.net/los_tarantos_alanos/antiguoscontemp.htm

[quote=JBF25]but is a ancient and true spanhis alano? or ancient canary dog?. :? [/quote] My question also.

-I say in my first post: alano in history different types in his functionality, catch cows in north spain climate cold, and alano hunting pigs in south spain sun, sun, sun. alano is a type catchdog in spain but not type one in history, differents types in his function and climate. -I say in my first post: You don`t know the real existence alano in history. But....your argument basic alano is new breed, is in one pic of canary dog?. And yes, i thing present alano is the ancient and true alano. Greetings.

Well, which is'nt a bandog?

I say: Your argument basic alano is new breed, is in one pic of canary dog?. You write, write, write, but you don`t have answers and proofs?.

Heres a better site than the Semecicisic... http://spanish-alano.com/sp0kg.htm

Ok Boomslang, you write in present alano.... but.... ancient alanos in your opinion a how were?

I don't think they are reconstructions...and i have stuck with that conclusion ever since i fell in love with the breed 6-7 years ago. though admitted - a lot of it's personal bias on my part. I don't think those examples pictured on Semencic's site are even spanish alanos. great danes are known as "alanos" in those latin speaking countries - italy in particular.

Boomslang, we made you an offer to go to Spain with us to visit the cattle ranchers so that you may speak to them. You could have seen the dogs in action as well. You did not respond. Step up to the plate if you really want to learn something. If not, your comments are nothing but hot air.

There was a DNA test done in Spain that shows that the Alano is indeed a true breed. It took DNA from many Alanos. However, I don't doubt that there are some people selling made-up dogs as Alanos. There was some Kennel in Canada that had deliberately vague pictures of their dogs and when I wrote them asking about their liniage they were vague and never answered my follow-up questions. I am pressed on time now, but later I will post links to some Kennels I know to be authentic.

First, I can understand your sketicism, as there is at least one breeder in Canada who is breeding questionable dogs. The pictures on their webpage are deliberately vague as was their answer to me regarding the lines of their dogs when I contacted them by e-mail. When I asked further questions I received no reply. There also seems to be someone or someones in Germany who are breeding dogs they refer to as Alanos, which look more like mixes. If you are basing your info on that I can certainly understand your misgivings.

[quote=boomslang]Im not basing my write write write on that pic, am basing it on the pics of the new so called Alanos, They have no conformation....So read, read, read! Enough with that damn pic allready it was an example only![/quote] Really? Well in this thread you posted: http://www.molosserdogs.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=763 [quote=boomslang]

I am not the best source for that info. You can go to www.semencic.com and look under "tawkin dawgs" and then click on the Alano and consume a wealth of knowlege on this. The pics are great.[/quote] Did you ever consider the Semensic might not know what he is talking about in the case of Spanish Alanos or that his pictures are not an accurate representation? He is of Italian ancestory and if you look at Italian websites of great danes, many of them refer to them as Alanos. Here we are talking about Spanish Alanos, a completely different breed. Here is what he said about the photos on his own webpage: “The context of these photographs (ie the location at which they were taken, the time period, and the fact that Dr. Melendez did not know what breed this was when it might have been easy for him to identify these dogs as Great Danes, leads me to believe that these are photographs of the now extinct Spanish "Alano".

Research I have done has suggested to me for years that today's Great Dane is very similar in appearance to the Alano of the past.” So in other words he has no idea of what these dogs are. And this is what you are basing your oppinion on: a guess by Carl Semensic. Here is a picture of an old Spanish Alano in a painting from the 1800s compared to the head of a modern day Alano.  Looks kinda the same. Here are some kennels that Breed Spansih Alanos and other sources of picture of Spanish Alanos. I previously posted as TXalano because I could not log into this account. I am not trying to post as two people. ">[/url]

[quote=boomslang]Can anyone go into the photo gallery and look at all of the different Alano pics and tell me that this is an established breed that has been in excistance for a long time and breeds true to type? If you can, you really dont know dogs. You may find two that look alike but then two more that look like a totally different breed alltogether. Real purebreds (Especially Ancient ones) breed very true to type! Why cant the Alano people admidt that it is a recreation? Anyone care to debate this and I'll be happy to take you to task![/quote] I would agree. The Alano is just another B.S. breed with a fake romantic history used to market and sell dogs. Unfortunatly, that is the winning way these days. People are in such a hurry to own something "rare" that they will believe almost anything.

[quote=BCofJurai] I would agree. The Alano is just another B.S. breed with a fake romantic history used to market and sell dogs. Unfortunatly, that is the winning way these days. People are in such a hurry to own something "rare" that they will believe almost anything.[/quote]

As I said, there were questionable Alano breeders and their dogs may indeed get mixed in with pictures of true Alanos in various places. I double checked and there is actually 2 in Canada that I know about--one of whom has supposedly shut down. There was also someone in the US who is no longer doing breeding that I have heard stories about. Since I don't have any hard facts, I am not commenting on him. Also, keep in mind that with any breeds there will be some variety. Look at the difference in heads among Rottweilers. Also, things like the dog's age and whether or not its ears are cropped can make the dogs look very different.

This authenticity of the Spanish Alano been beaten to death in this thread: http://www.molosserdogs.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=763 Here is the bottom line:

1. Carl Semencic is an expert by default. He knows nothing about Spanish Alanos. He never saw one or looked in the right places to find one. On his own webpage he admits that he is guessing about the pictures of the unknown dogs that he labels as Alanos.

2. A DNA test was conducted that proved that the Spanish Alano is indeed a distinct breed.

Here is a link to the study. I had a Spanish speaking friend read this and explain what it means to me. I will see about getting a translation done. Here is a link to the document. http://www.molosserdogs.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=763 3. In March 2004, the Spanish Alano was recognized by the Spanish Ministry for Agriculture. 4. In November 2004 the breed was recognised by the RSCE (Spanish Kennel Club).

Lets take a look at a painting of an ancient Alano from the 1800s and compare it to a modern Alano: http://www.lostarantos.netfirms.com/fotos/html/Galeria/Jovellanos1892.jpg

I don't know anything about this breed. I do like the look of this guy: http://www.molosserdogs.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&pos=-23921

That's my dog and his Uzi.

[quote=us Alano]That's my dog and his Uzi.[/quote] Very good looking dog. I'm concidering going to Pamplonia for the Festival of San Fermin. I'd like to see thesee dogs in thier native land.

I should add that there seems to be people in Germany producing a breed they refer to as an Alano which most certainly is not a Spanish Alano. When I use the word Alano generally I am using it as a shorter reference to the Spanish Alano or Alano Espanol, which is the breed both my dogs are. I tried posting some links to some valid Spanish Alano kennels but for whatever reason they did not come out. So here are some links to some. The kennel below is not really producing many dogs these days. Notice how different the uncropped puppies look from the cropped adult: http://www.perroalano.com/ My male's father, Curro, is now living at this kennel: http://www.alanosdelastinieblas.com/ Tarantos, the classic Spanish Alano Kennel: http://www.lostarantos.netfirms.com/Alano1ENG.htm

This is a nice dog regardless of what it is. Out of italy, I couldn't read about it:) IMHO the dog(s) in the old photo's are not danes and neither is this one, nice side by side for comparison, not a spanish Alano for certain, what would you call this dog?----

canary dog.

This kind of argument happens when one speaks of type and one speaks of function. To say that the dog is not a breed because it is not true to a particular type is incorrect - what is type anyway? Who establishes it and how do you know it? Is type just a variation in the breed or an entirely different breed? In most cases it is only the appearance of the dog - which works great for the shows but not for a working dog. So - it is almost impossible to get agreement if one talks type and one talks function. The basis for conclusion are mutually exclusive.

@Boomslang : are APBT's a breed or a type ? You have 15 k Pitbulls, but also 50 k heavy ones.... There are a lot of discussions of their origin... So is it a 'pure' breed ? Some look like a jack russell, others like a boxer x lab cross. A colleague of mine went looking for an Alano in Spain, and showed me pics of the dogs. They were all very similar.

[quote=JBF25]canary dog.[/quote] you trying to say thats a presa????? because i do hope NOT! also, the incosistancy in th alanos you see is down to crap 2 bob breeders... you CAN get nice alanos. and i would pick one over the far to common apbt anyday!

Presa canario is a race, canary dog is dog of this photograph. I don´t know your post, my english is bad. Regards

I'll go to Spain and talk with the ranchers, and my opinion on the matter is similar to Boomslang's. I think it's awfully conspicious that a # of breeds that are supposedly exinct all pop up at the same time when large PP dogs become popular and profitable. not to mention the numbers. There's nothing wrong w/ crossing a pitbull to something and selling it as a functioning bandog, as long as: a)you're honest about the dog's nature and ability, b)you call it what it is, and don't try to scam people.

I am not sure on the Spanish Alano, I was very skeptical until I had read that study in the past on the DNA. That would be proof that they are a separate breed right? Even if it were a recreation I don't see the big deal. That is still somewhat the history of the breed as I'm sure these current dogs must have some original blood in them somewhere. So if it doesn't breed true its not a purebreed? That is only true somewhat. If you are a show breeder or within a certain context.

However many working breeds have a larger variance and breeds in general have different looks depending on the bloodline and source. I see a lot of variance in almost every breed out there. Unless they are show bred. Labs that vary from stocky, wider head, medium to large in size, ones that are leaner with a narrower head, some small ears and some large ears. They are one of the most popular breeds and been here for awhile yet I see so much difference in them. My infatuation with the Belgian Malinois I have seen a lot of variance. Are these not purebreds? One pair I observed and spent time with one was bred for work and one show. The working bred dog was just breath taking IMO. He was the dark color which I much love. Besides this he was big, heavier bone, slightly different head and the show dog was very lean and lanky, narrow skull, just a narrower body over all. This beautiful working dog didn't place well in the shows but he could sure do what he was bred for!! I have owned Boxers before. I have also known many. I knew several Boxers below standard in size and with bug eyes too. Poor looking things. I have seen the sharp typy show boxers.

I have also seen true working Boxers which differ from show. Many other differences in body type from sub quality dogs. Another good breed for example is the American Pit Bull Terrier, besides all the BS crap we know is mixed. Like Bandogs registered as APBT i.e. Whopper, Gotti, ect. Those that look like pure Patterdales but are registered as APBTs. We see a huge variance in the these performance types. Even the performance show dog has variance. They are true to the standard in a way but are not typy. However if you look at the American Staffordshire Terrier, descendants of APBTs they are usually extremely typy with only a few that vary. Why? Because AKC always breed extreme type without faulting on the phenotype. APBTs are bred to work and are lax on the typiness. You find this from early days on up to current but these are purebred APBTs. A lot of the strains are also very distinct in type because the foundation dogs used and the breeders eye goes into making the phenotype of the line. What is your opinion on the Fila?

I have seen a lot of different looking ones and different temperament depending on what the breeders goals and bloodlines are. Are these also a new breed? Speaking of Great Danes many are typy, but I've observed several who are not. I also noticed that there can be some big temperament differences. A lot of pet show couch potatoes but a few out there come pretty close to being able to do what they should be able to do. They have a totally different drive about them. If you just look around on the internet for a breed you will see a lot of variance in a breed depending on what the breeder is using the dogs for and their purpose.

I've read the same thing and I'd like to believe it, but there's an old saying that I put much stock into, "Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see." How do we know the statement is ture w/o proof, how do we know they were testing Alanos and not Spn. Bulldogs, how do we know those dogs haven't since seen their progeny reduced to mutts? There's room for suspicion.

here's such a thing as various types w/in a breed, but when you see a breed w/ looks that "fall all across the map," as goes the common phrase around, I am suspicious. Again, I'd like to believe this is a preserved breed, but most products look like Perro de Torros w/ bull terrier and boxer infusion. Pics here of older dogs show white dogs that closely resemble standard AB's. Even if that dog wasn't the standard or norm, I haven't seen one modern example similar to that.

Well to find out if you own a purebred dog, you can now get them dna tested for a reasonable price. For a cheek swab around $65 bucks and more for blood draw. here is the article I read http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21156493/?GT1=10450 So, if you claim you own a purebreed of any type, you can now back it up and use it as a credential. No more arguments over whether the dogs are a pure breed or not. Im curious about my alanos... one looks like she has an awful lot of boxer in her... My male seems a little daney to me. Hopefully I wont find out Ive been "had" If so, luckily I didnt spend as much as some folks have spent on theirs. You can say it doesnt matter, but if someone spends $2k on a dog that ends up being a mix, that would suck, unless it had a lot of working purpose!

http://club-ancae10.blogspot.com/ http://club-ancae14.blogspot.com/ just some pics of the official breed clubs pages. here you can see dogs in different tendencies, and in type........one kennel showing their 'librele' type. as for taking a trip to spain, i do so all the time and have met with cattlemen in both the north and supplied dogs to some in the west.............my friend Astorga has 'taped' interviews documenting accounts of cattlemen recorded in late '90's and of which one day he will write a book. no need for specualtion or invention of ideas or 'informed' conclusion then???? some still feel it worthwhile to write a 'book' based speculation or on others' speculation and misinformation......AND 'non sequitur' argument. those same people have no first or second hand knowledge and undoubtably will blush when their endeavours are shown to be of less value that than the paper upon which their folly is manifested.

Great pictures Neil.

Hi, I'm new here. I believe my dog could very possibly be an alano. I do live in the US but i am only about 150 miles from the mexican border. I got him as a stray, and originally thought he was a boxer and pitbull mix, however i have seen many other boxer and pit mixes that do not look much like my dog. He stands at 23 1/2" at the shoulders, i haven't weighed him in a while but i would guess its 80 or so lbs. His personality meets that of everything i have read on the breed. He can run for 3 miles flat and still have energy to play, he is so sweet with me when we are alone he rolls onto his back in my arms and wants to be held as a baby. He can jump 6 ft straight up. He can latch on with his jaws and hang on for dear life while i spin him around with his rope. On new years he was attacked and fought back and for the life of me and the other owner we could not make him let go of the pit bull he was latched onto, kicking him in the balls did not work. His intelligence is superior, stubborn but very very smart. Her are a couple of pics, i will get more ASAP [br][link={e_FILE}public/1264028054_18078_FT16399_honey1.jpg][img:width=500&height=375]{e_FILE}public/1264028054_18078_FT16399_honey1_.jpg">[/link][br][br][img:width=170&height=226]{e_FILE}public/1264028055_18078_FT16399_honey2.jpg">

I dont see the Alano in there at all...but who was kicking your dog in the testicles?

Looks like a bully to me, no Alano...

If the DNA results came from conducted scientific research at a univercity, they appear to be legitimate. besides,, don't recently created breeds generally lack the extent of consistency in type shown by Spanish alanos?

Looks like a nice enough dog, Mr Jackson, but no real semblance to any Spanish Alano I've seen to put it mildly. Hybrid bully-dog. Enjoy him since he deserves a good home! Cheers!

These pics are not the best and he was only about 8 months old. You guys most certainly could be right, that he is not an alano. And i will love him all the same if he is not, but i would like to know for sure. A DAN test i guess would show it, but from what i have found online the DNA test only compares his DNA to about 65 common breeds or so. So if he was part boxer or pit it would probably show it in the test results but if he is not i would still have no proof that he is an alano. Is there somewhere, a college or something that would test for the alano DNA specifically? i know this is silly but just play along ok? thankx :)

Before you go that far, think logically. Where are the populations of Alano Espanol? Is there a breeder nearby? Does it really matter?

Logically he is not an alano, witch is fine. But is there a test that would look for the alano DNA specifically? there has to be right? anyway i love my dog no matter what he is and i do plan to get a DNA test done, when i got the cash. Either way he is the greatest dog i have ever owned. here are some more pics.. [br][link={e_FILE}public/1264544832_18078_FT16399_002_2.jpg][img:width=500&height=375]{e_FILE}public/1264544832_18078_FT16399_002_2_.jpg">[/link][br][br][link={e_FILE}public/1264544832_18078_FT16399_003_3.jpg][img:width=500&height=375]{e_FILE}public/1264544832_18078_FT16399_003_3_.jpg">[/link][br][br][link={e_FILE}public/1264544832_18078_FT16399_011_11.jpg][img:width=500&height=375]{e_FILE}public/1264544832_18078_FT16399_011_11_.jpg">[/link][br][br][link={e_FILE}public/1264544832_18078_FT16399_017_17.jpg][img:width=500&height=375]{e_FILE}public/1264544832_18078_FT16399_017_17_.jpg">[/link][br][br][link={e_FILE}public/1264544832_18078_FT16399_019_19.jpg][img:width=500&height=375]{e_FILE}public/1264544832_18078_FT16399_019_19_.jpg">[/link][br][br][link={e_FILE}public/1264544832_18078_FT16399_040_40.jpg][img:width=500&height=281]{e_FILE}public/1264544832_18078_FT16399_040_40_.jpg">[/link][br][br][link={e_FILE}public/1264544832_18078_FT16399_059_59.jpg][img:width=500&height=375]{e_FILE}public/1264544832_18078_FT16399_059_59_.jpg">[/link][br]