Fascinated with molossers

I became interested in molossers when the pair of presa canarios attacked and killed the lesbian lacrosse teacher in San Francisco some years ago. I'd never heard of presa canarios before. I knew of mastiffs, of course, and pit bulls and rottweilers as being generally intimidating dogs, but I'd never even heard the term "molosser" until recently and "presa canario" sounded like an Italian furniture or clothing designer to me, lol!. Some months ago, that SF case was mentioned again on TV in the context of something else, and I remembered I'd always intended to look up more about that breed, presa canario, so I did. In my internet travels to that end, I learned the term "molosser" and eventually stumbled into this site because of the complete listing of all molossers. The categorization of them and the reasons for it are really helpful in understanding what these dogs are all about, and I've spent a lot of time reading about the different breeds. Over the months that I've been reading those profiles, I've thought back to some of the 1st and 2nd category dogs I've seen over the years and what they have in common that is different from all other breeds finally gelled in my mind: they have a primal aura and stand-offishness about them that other breeds don't have. They are the steely-eyed dogs of war. I don't have a molosser breed, and don't know if I would ever want one. We live in a condo, for starters. We have a pure-bred, roughshod, 4WD, shot-from-a-cannon Jack Russell Terrier rocket dog who is scary-smart. She is quite merry and not stand-offish at all, lol! But we intend to move to the country of Eastern Tennessee as soon as we're able to sell and get the hell out of here. At that point, we might want a molosser type dog for security if such a dog is good with other dogs and has a good hunting instinct as well because my husband is an avid hunter, although our JRT has a strong hunting instinct and puts up birds, loves to hunt rabbit and squirrel, mice, etc., and is big on fishing as well. Would a molosser breed tolerate a JRT's antics? Or would it become annoyed with the JRT's constant urging to play and chase and the terrier "attitude"? I'm also wondering if homeowner's insurance is higher if you own one of these breeds and, if so, how much more? Thank you for any information you would care to share on these subjects. :)

Its all in the upbringing..... I can tell you from experience to stay away from any of the Breeds with a high Prey drive.... As you JRT's darting action and fluttering behavior can act as a real trigger for dogs with said prey drive. I would go with a more laid back breed... Leonberger, Newfie, andthe like... I dont think that you are experienced enough to handle the dogs Im about to mention, but Ovcharka dogs seem to do suprisingly well with little dogs. PLease Keep in mind.. there are always exceptions to the rule. Just rememer... Upbringing! And Welcome. Lane

[quote=esprinter]As long as your Jack Russel does not have small dog syndrome, there are plenty of "Molossers" that would no doubt love to play with him... Not all of them are tough guys. Far from it. English Mastiffs, Bullmastiffs, St Bernards, Great Danes, Irish Wolfhounds, and Newfoundlands are all Molossers and they are mostly gentle giants. In fact, I have seen the Newfoundland referred to as the worlds most gentle breed of dog.[/quote] I don't think she has SDS, although she can be quite a pushy little broad. She has the "give her an inch" syndrome, for sure, and, while she isn't aggressive toward big dogs, she has no fear of them (or anything else for that matter, which can be dangerous). Her main objective with other dogs is to get them to run from her so she can chase them. She is aggressive sometimes with small dogs, but that's not an issue for this discussion (she once "shark-shook" a Chihuahua at a dog park, like it was a rag doll so no more dog park - I would be devastated if she killed or seriously injured somebody else's beloved pet). I have always liked Irish Wolfhounds - they seem just glorious to me, but I understand that guarding is not their strong suit, although its size would give any would-be robber pause. I like Newfoundlands, too, and know what loyal, gentle family dogs they are while being hard workers and good guard dogs. Their sort of doofus look is part of their appeal. That could be a good choice. Are they any good at hunting - do they have any interest in that or at least enough hunting instinct that they can be field trained? Of the breeds you named, which do you think would be a good guard dog with some hunting ability that is calm and gentle enough to not get irritated by a bouncing Jack Russell? Since the Jack joined our pack (family) first, she's going to want newcomers to be lower down the totem pole than she is. We would probably have the guard dog sleeping outside at night in warmer weather, inside with a doggy door in winter. The jack sleeps with us under the covers and there is no way she would ever give up her position as top dog, and that could become a deadly problem with the wrong molosser because of their size and jaw capacity. My husband doesn't like Great Danes for some reason but the two I discussed above or the EM I think he would consider and grow to love. I'm the one more interested in getting a guard dog than he is when the time comes, but if it could hunt fairly well he'd be fine with it, too. As Platz said, he could take them both hunting (the molosser and the JRT). Will a Newfoundland retrieve? With field training, maybe? I guess what I would want is a dog who will play nicely with or at least calmly tolerate one or more JRTs, tolerate/ignore some outdoor barn cats, show an interest and ability to hunt game or retrieve fowl, lay by the fire and have a good snore during an afternoon nap, rip the throat out of an intruder in about 10 seconds and be intelligent enough to know the good guys from the bad guys.

[quote=tosamama]her name was Diane Whipple, and that was a terrible thing that happened, a very good example of the worst kind of dog owners. it is possible that an insurer would cancel a home policy if they know there is a potentially dangerous dog in the house.[/quote] Yes, Diane Whipple. That was her name, that's right.. Imagine walking out of your apartment or down the hallway toward your front door and suddenly you are set upon by these dogs who look like they were created by Satan himself and launched from Hell. Imagine the disbelief running through your mind as your life slowly ebbs away: "I'm dying today? Like this? DOGS? Of course, that case also reminds me of the woman who was jogging early one morning on a jogging trail and was attacked and killed by a mountain lion. I didn't see any vigorous prosecution of these leftwing loons who block all attempts to properly manage wildlife. Her pain, shock and anguish would have been no less than Diane Whipple's. Whether it's dog owners or fools in government and the courts, the result is the same, but the blame process is totally different.

[quote=Platz]State Farm, Alstate & Farmers Ins. all will insure Rottweilers, so I'm pretty confident they'll insure the other Molosser breeds. I used to Hunt baor in East Tenn. annually. In that 1/2 of the state boar & ferral pigs are concidered a nuisance animal NOT a game animal so they can be hunted all year. Think Bully-type molosser breeds that were developed to catch. IE . American Bulldogs, Dogos, Presas...even the Rottweiler. You hubbie could hunt the jack & a bulldog together for boar. The jack could find & bay until the bulldog catches. Jacks are so fast they will be safe. Of course Jacks are also completely insane dogs so it might try to catch the boar too :lol: :lol: :lol: Two opposite sex dogs, one an adult & the other a puppy pretty much will always bond and be a great team.[/quote] If they'll insure for Rots, they should insure for some of the dogs we're talking about here. Do they jack up the premium, if you know? Hubby is excited about the wild boar in Eastern TN. He really wants to get at them. I'll be going with him from time to time, although upland game birds are more my thing. But just for the record, I killed a wild boar with an ancient Colt .45 single action while standing on a tree stump in Colusa County, CA a good number of years ago. I hit him low on the forehead about 1" off center at about 4+ yds.. I was out boar hunting with a boyfriend and a couple of his friends. I was allowed to go because I'd hunted deer and pheasant with my brother and dad before and wasn't a wimp. Boar hunting seemed like a bigger deal, though, at least to me. Amusingly, I was the only one who got anything that day. :D :P :o The thing was black with reddish eyes, was snorting steam from his nostrils as it was very cold out, and was about to charge me. It reminded me of a locomotive engine. Bang! And he just folded right where he stood. Lights out. How would the breeds you mentioned relate to the JRT? That really is my only fear about getting a solid molosser guard dog when the time comes. And, LMBO :lol:, yep, our JRT would have no qualms about chasing a boar and making its life a living hell. If it turned on her, she'd just jump back out of range. She's chased llamas and horses in the past and manages to stay out of range of their hooves (or whatever llama feet are called, lol). How does a rot hunt? I mean, what's its tactic? I would guess sight over scent and full attack. How would a male rot, from a pup, be with a spayed female JRT as far as not trying to kill/attack her? What about neutering? Another question.....with both the rot and the JRT at a full run, can the rot catch the JRT? Our JRT has been officially clocked at an average speed of 23mph over a two-mile course, with bursts up to 25mph and sprints of a couple hundred yards at about 28mph when she really gives it the gun (she has the longer legs of a Parson Russell). She can also climb chain link and wooden slat fences to get away, sharply turn on a dime and jump 5-6 times her height. I have no idea how fast a rot is or if it could catch her if she pissed it off....unless she was cornered.

[quote=boomslang]Its all in the upbringing..... I can tell you from experience to stay away from any of the Breeds with a high Prey drive.... As you JRT's darting action and fluttering behavior can act as a real trigger for dogs with said prey drive. I would go with a more laid back breed... Leonberger, Newfie, andthe like... I dont think that you are experienced enough to handle the dogs Im about to mention, but Ovcharka dogs seem to do suprisingly well with little dogs. PLease Keep in mind.. there are always exceptions to the rule. Just rememer... Upbringing! And Welcome. Lane[/quote] Thank you for the nice welcome and your reply. I did some checking on the breeds you mentioned. The Leonberger is quite a handsome dog and sounds like it has the right temperament that we'd be looking for. It is truly a gentle giant but strong protective instincts. I see it can do water rescue so I wonder if it could be taught to retrieve? A drawback I noticed is that it has a fairly short lifespan, 8-9 years, so the heartache would come soon. The Ovtcharka - my God what a huge head! :) His disposition and purposes in life do seem to be conducive to living harmoniously with other dogs, but it's clear that a lot of training and careful attention is needed to bring out the best in the dog and establish good control. I also see nothing that indicates any hunting instinct. It seems to be more of a livestock and family guarder that anything else, but I may not be able to find all of the three main traits we'd be looking for in one dog of the molosser breeds: 1). Excellent guard dog with an intimidating appearance or at least be quite large. The kind of dog an intruder sees and and says, "Oh s--t, I am so outta here!" 2). Good with other dogs and content to be the outside guard dog most of the time while other pets are inside with us (which is not to say he wouldn't come in daily or ever be neglected, not given affection, walked and played with or left out in lousy weather - never happen). 3). Hopefully some hunting abilities, particularly retrieving or at least locating the kill in the cover. #1 and #2 would be "musts"; #3 would be a big bonus but not totally necessary.

I am hugely offended by the way you started this thread. You have zero compassion for the woman savaged to death. I hate that someone like you is attracted to these animals.

[quote=soldiermonkey]I am hugely offended by the way you started this thread. You have zero compassion for the woman savaged to death. I hate that someone like you is attracted to these animals.[/quote] WTH? What part of this did you miss? "Yes, Diane Whipple. That was her name, that's right.. Imagine walking out of your apartment or down the hallway toward your front door and suddenly you are set upon by these dogs who look like they were created by Satan himself and launched from Hell. Imagine the disbelief running through your mind as your life slowly ebbs away: "I'm dying today? Like this? DOGS?" Of course, that case also reminds me of the woman who was jogging early one morning on a jogging trail and was attacked and killed by a mountain lion. I didn't see any vigorous prosecution of these leftwing loons who block all attempts to properly manage wildlife. Her pain, shock and anguish would have been no less than Diane Whipple's. Whether it's dog owners or fools in government and the courts, the result is the same, but the blame process is totally different." I must say YOUR post offends ME! What part of "I'm interested in a guard dog after we move to the country" is so wrong? And what part of, "I don't know if I'd ever want one" don't you get? Do you have a reading comprehension problem? Maybe you're just one of those people who wanders around forums looking for something to spin into phony indignation. *SHRUG*

[blockquote]"I became interested in molossers when the pair of presa canarios attacked and killed the lesbian lacrosse teacher in San Francisco some years ago"[/blockquote] For your information I have had molossers my whole life, and have been a member of this site for years... I hope no one who knew or cared about this woman read your horrible post. pm me if you want to know what OFFENDED really means

[quote="soldiermonkey"][blockquote]"I became interested in molossers when the pair of presa canarios attacked and killed the lesbian lacrosse teacher in San Francisco some years ago"[/blockquote] For your information I have had molossers my whole life, and have been a member of this site for years... I hope no one who knew or cared about this woman read your horrible post. pm me if you want to know what OFFENDED really means[/quote] What happened to Diane Whipple was awful and I've made it clear that that is my opinion of that tragic event, but the Whipple case in SF is tangential to the reason I came to this site. Has it occurred to you that somebody can become interested in something they never heard of before, whether that something did or is something wonderful or, conversely, something terrible? A lot of people, particularly journalists, didn't care much about terrorists until Dannie Pearl was beheaded by them. Would it be odd that people, especially journalists, then became interested in the subject, not because they admired or liked the terrorists for killing Dannie Pearl but because they wondered how such a loathsome thing could ever happen? Does somebody who wonders how someone like Hitler could have ever come to power and then studies the subject mean they like or favor what Hitler did? If they then come upon a site or organization that deals very tangentially with the original subject matter the person was interested in or sparked their interest in a broader subject, they don't have to fall all over themselves bemoaning Hitler. Again, your reading comprehension needs work. Perhaps you should look to your own shortcomings before you mouth off to a new person because you're incapable of understanding context, syntax and sentence construction. I hope nobody from the outside looking in read your ignorant posts. And it doesn't matter how long you've been here - you can be a pot-stirring jerk for a short time or for a long time. In all these years that you say you've been a member you've contributed 64 posts, with two of them directed as criticism/harassment of a new member. That's 4% of harassing, ignorant posts directed at a new member in a matter of minutes from a years-long member with only 64 posts contributed in all those years. Shame on you.

Your spelling and grammar is terrible. If you can't understand how offensive your language is, I feel sorry for everyone around you. If you are interested, my name is Matt.... yours is dirt. I hope for the sake of real dogs everywhere, you never get anything more serious than a Jack Russell.

[quote="soldiermonkey"]Your spelling and grammar is terrible. If you can't understand how offensive your language is, I feel sorry for everyone around you. If you are interested, my name is Matt.... yours is dirt. I hope for the sake of real dogs everywhere, you never get anything more serious than a Jack Russell.[/quote] Ad hominem is the last refuge for those with no valid argument.....or honor. By the way, lol, you said, "Your spelling and grammar is terrible. The correct verb for that sentence is "are", not "is", but your claim is inaccurate even if you could figure out the correct verb.

There is nothing I wouldn't do for mine or my country's honour... its the reason I wear its uniform and fight for the rights of everyone, regardless of their gratitude level. Its awesome that what I do, helps make even the most ignorant of people in our society, feel its ok to disrespect our dead. I really don't mind if you question my opinion, my intelligence or even my choice of dogs. But I really dont think you are in a position to question my honour.

[quote="soldiermonkey"]There is nothing I wouldn't do for mine or my country's honour... its the reason I wear its uniform and fight for the rights of everyone, regardless of their gratitude level. Its awesome that what I do, helps make even the most ignorant of people in our society, feel its ok to disrespect our dead. I really don't mind if you question my opinion, my intelligence or even my choice of dogs. But I really dont think you are in a position to question my honour.[/quote] Your insults and deliberate, obvious twisting of the subject I've raised (hint: the subject was NOT Diane Whipple) are not an honorable way to conduct yourself; not even with a stranger on a forum. In no way have I disrespected Diane Whipple. I couldn't care less what kind of dog you have and I would not disparage your choice in dogs as you did mine, even though, as I CLEARLY stated, we live in a condo which is not conducive to having large or giant breed dogs. Obviously. Duh. Yet you chose to say something nasty about my dog, as though she has anything whatsoever to do with the ridiculous, absurd point you raised. Back to your writing skills. I've taken the liberty of "bolding" your seven errors in the very brief hairball paragraph that you just coughed up in an effort to get respect by pointing out your service, or alleged service. I'll let you see if you can figure out what's wrong with the paragraph. Hint: it's mostly punctuation.....this time. Perhaps that will keep you busy for awhile and I won't have to go find my fly swatter.

I guess if the only thing I had on my side was punctuation, I would stress it too...

[quote=soldiermonkey]I guess if the only thing I had on my side was punctuation, I would stress it too...[/quote] You're the one who claimed my spelling, etc., are terrible. I hadn't said anything about your atrocious writing skills at all. I simply pointed out your atrocious reading comprehension skills. YOU are the one who then made this about writing skills. So you opened that door and, given your poor spelling and punctuation, you should have left it alone. The other thing I have on my side is the plain truth that I've never insulted Diane Whipple nor was I insensitive to her death. It just wasn't the subject of my original post. You are apparently too simple-minded to wrap your two firing brain cells around that concept. And another thing I have on my side is that I didn't have to stoop to insulting someone about their choice in a dog just to try to be mean and nasty as you did because you're losing the argument. You can keep this up all day if you want. It won't change the facts that are there for anyone to see.

Lets forget the insults... I ask you to take five minutes to look at your first post, pretend you are "the lesbians" mother, sister or friend... If you can tell me it wouldn't have made your blood boil, I would be shocked. And if it really matters to you, I can prove what "service" I have done, thru Gary (site owner) You will forgive me if I am not comfy giving someone like you my details...

Kit, I call a truce.... I have no interest in an extended war. How bout we agree to disagree? If it matters, one of my favourite dogs of all time was a JR of my Dads, called Digger.

[quote="tosamama"][quote="soldiermonkey"][blockquote]"I became interested in molossers when the pair of presa canarios attacked and killed the lesbian lacrosse teacher in San Francisco some years ago"[/blockquote] For your information I have had molossers my whole life, and have been a member of this site for years... I hope no one who knew or cared about this woman read your horrible post. pm me if you want to know what OFFENDED really means[/quote] i think it was the "L" word that started it. i don't swing that way, but i have no problem with those who do. when someone mentions that in a situation in which it has no bearing, it can be thought of as offensive. I was taken a little aback by the original post, that's why I addressed Diane Whipple first. if boar hunting is an important thing, you need an opposite sex Dogo or AmBull.[/quote] I couldn't think of Whipple's name. One of the prominent things the media repeated about her was the fact that she was a lesbian. I used the term as a means of getting across who I was talking about. I'm new here. I had/have no idea if people would know whom I was speaking about. I don't live all that far away from SF so the case was widely reported here, but I don't know about across the country. Thus, I simply stated all the identifying information I knew about her. Whipple was openly lesbian, so it is no insult to her or to her family to point that out as a means of identifying more particularly the case I was speaking about. SF is the nation's gay and lesbian capital. There are numerous, and I mean numerous, organizations that use the terms "gay" and "lesbian" in the titles of their organizations, and Whipple belonged to at least two of them. So why in hell is using that fact as a means of identifying who I was talking about/triggering people's memory insulting to her or her family? It's the same reason I mentioned that she was a lacrosse teacher and lived in SF. You know what? To hell with this place.

Girl, you offended everybody I know personally who is on this site. It wasn't so much the way you described the victim, as much as how excited you seemed to be by the manner of her death. Maybe next time don't combine a national tragedy with your happiness at discovering the cause of it...

[quote=soldiermonkey]Girl, you offended everybody I know personally who is on this site. It wasn't so much the way you described the victim, as much as how excited you seemed to be by the manner of her death. Maybe next time don't combine a national tragedy with your happiness at discovering the cause of it...[/quote] The death of one woman isn't a "national tragedy". A tragedy, yes, but not a "national" tragedy. And you still can't read. I wasn't excited about her death. That's sick. And if I had been, I would have looked up Presa Canarios long before a couple months ago. You need to open your dictionary and see if you can discern the difference between "curiosity" and "happiness." As to your first sentence, I think it's total BS. KMA.

If you don't think a woman being savaged to death deserves AT LEAST national consideration, I am glad you are not in any position of power. I think you need to take a deep breath and think about how you want to be remembered.

[quote=soldiermonkey]If you don't think a woman being savaged to death deserves AT LEAST national consideration, I am glad you are not in any position of power. I think you need to take a deep breath and think about how you want to be remembered.[/quote] Then why not an international tragedy? Why not an inter-galactic tragedy? Maybe the UN should convene to discuss it? 911 was a national tragedy. Diane Whipple's death was not. Any violent death is a tragedy. There are cases of horrific violence committed against innocent people every day in this country. They're all tragedies, but they're not "national" tragedies as individual cases. Why is Diane Whipple's death so much more tragic than, say, an innocent child walking down the street who is accidentally shot by drive-by gangbangers? Or how about the two young people in Knoxville who were tortured for days by several people, a story that the national media refuses to report on? I'm happy with the way I'll be remembered. I get paid well to give advice on several very serious subjects that often require delicately balancing diverse interests in which perspective and proportionality must be identified and considered. One of the things I first look for is which party is making a mountain out of a molehill; often a distorted mountain. You, therefore, may want to remove that chip from your shoulder and the proverbial splinter from your eye before you get much older.

It is not an uncommon thing for tragedy to bring someone to become interested in the factors that were involved that caused the tragedy.. Much attention was drawn to the research of Krait snakes after the Joe Slowenski trdgedy in Myanmar. Also the Killings in Kruger Natonal park that occured during illegal border crossings sparked zoologists worldwide to conduct massive sudies on the predatory habits of Lions on humans. We all slow down when we see a car accident. More recently studies on Chimpanzees has shifted drastically after the groteque incident in Connecticut. I really beleive that the original thread was taken out of context. Bane and Hera were definatley not ambassadors for the breed. However, much attention was drawn to this breed after the attack at Pacific heights by both the wrong and right sort of people. I truly beleive that you meant offense to no one. Everyone with a concience feels terrible about what occured in those apartments.

Largely because of 911, both your and my country have been at war (same side) for years. That I would call an International tragedy....

boomslang, thanks for your rational comments. It's reassuring to see that somebody gets it, although you aren't the only one according to my PM box.

[quote=esprinter"][quote="Kit2009"][quote="esprinter]As long as your Jack Russel does not have small dog syndrome, there are plenty of "Molossers" that would no doubt love to play with him... Not all of them are tough guys. Far from it. English Mastiffs, Bullmastiffs, St Bernards, Great Danes, Irish Wolfhounds, and Newfoundlands are all Molossers and they are mostly gentle giants. In fact, I have seen the Newfoundland referred to as the worlds most gentle breed of dog.[/quote] I don't think she has SDS, although she can be quite a pushy little broad. She has the "give her an inch" syndrome, for sure, and, while she isn't aggressive toward big dogs, she has no fear of them (or anything else for that matter, which can be dangerous). Her main objective with other dogs is to get them to run from her so she can chase them. She is aggressive sometimes with small dogs, but that's not an issue for this discussion (she once "shark-shook" a Chihuahua at a dog park, like it was a rag doll so no more dog park - I would be devastated if she killed or seriously injured somebody else's beloved pet). I have always liked Irish Wolfhounds - they seem just glorious to me, but I understand that guarding is not their strong suit, although its size would give any would-be robber pause. I like Newfoundlands, too, and know what loyal, gentle family dogs they are while being hard workers and good guard dogs. Their sort of doofus look is part of their appeal. That could be a good choice. Are they any good at hunting - do they have any interest in that or at least enough hunting instinct that they can be field trained? Of the breeds you named, which do you think would be a good guard dog with some hunting ability that is calm and gentle enough to not get irritated by a bouncing Jack Russell? Since the Jack joined our pack (family) first, she's going to want newcomers to be lower down the totem pole than she is. We would probably have the guard dog sleeping outside at night in warmer weather, inside with a doggy door in winter. The jack sleeps with us under the covers and there is no way she would ever give up her position as top dog, and that could become a deadly problem with the wrong molosser because of their size and jaw capacity. My husband doesn't like Great Danes for some reason but the two I discussed above or the EM I think he would consider and grow to love. I'm the one more interested in getting a guard dog than he is when the time comes, but if it could hunt fairly well he'd be fine with it, too. As Platz said, he could take them both hunting (the molosser and the JRT). Will a Newfoundland retrieve? With field training, maybe? I guess what I would want is a dog who will play nicely with or at least calmly tolerate one or more JRTs, tolerate/ignore some outdoor barn cats, show an interest and ability to hunt game or retrieve fowl, lay by the fire and have a good snore during an afternoon nap, rip the throat out of an intruder in about 10 seconds and be intelligent enough to know the good guys from the bad guys.[/quote] Your dog would love my Bullmastiff. Her favorite thing to do with smaller dogs is chase them and try to get them to chase her. :lol: I have never known anyone who used a Newfi for hunting, but I have read that they have been used for it and that they will retrieve. It makes sense that they would, because they are great at retrieving both objects and people from the water and Labrador Retreivers were bred down from Newfies.. 8)[/quote] Oh, she would love to chase your bullmastiff - for hours - day in and day out :lol: She wouldn't necessarily want to catch him - just chase him! My hubby is not objecting to a Newfie, especially if it will retrieve birds. But do you think it would retrieve on land or only in the water? It seems to me that if he's willing or likes to retrieve, he'll retrieve properly with training and it wouldn't matter. The Newfie seems like it might be a good fit. It seems like there are about 10 breeds that I would consider. When I narrow it down more (to about 5), based on my reading, we're going to decide and then start carefully researching breeders so that by the time we move we will be getting the right dog at the right time. Platz says we definitely need a male pup (of whatever breed) because of our female JRT. I agree. I wonder if American strains of modern Irish Wolfhounds still have a hunting instinct. That's what I've been trying to find out today. They used to be used for boar hunting. Thanks for your opinion and info on the Newfie. Very, very nice dog.

Eh, well scratch the Irish Wolfhound from the list. They have an even shorter life expectancy (6-8 yrs) than the Leonberger (8-9 yrs). Darn.

Well, I read further about Newfies today, and it turns out they're fine with retrieving, land or water. I've also learned that they are generally easy to train. So Newfie is a really good suggestion and both my hubby and I like the breed. Newfie is definitely on the list of possibles. Thanks, esprinter. I saw a lady walking a big black lab and a chihuahua together this morning. The Mutt and Jeff size disparity suggested what our little Jack would look like standing next to a Newfie, :lol:

I have a real admiration for Newfies, since the first time a big black specimen chased me over my friends fence and out of his yard as I carried in the Pizza to the party.... Needless to say we ordered out that night.... Me and the Newfie made better later that evening :wink: