Help with dog aggressive dog

J

Hi everyone, Today I had some trouble with my dog Kynda (Caucasian Ovcharka/German Shepherd/Great Pyrenees mix, 2 years and 1 1/2 months old). Kynda has always been aggressive towards other dogs. I have socialized her, a lot (puppy school, camping, walks in town, visits at the vet etc) and she has gotten better, but still can be aggressive. Today Kynda was outside by herself. She started barking aggressivley so my mom went out to see what was going on (I was at work) and our other dog, a golden retriever, came out with her. Brooke ran over to Kynda, and they were sniffing around in the front yard. Then the garage door opened, and out came a neighbor with his two little dogs. Kynda and Brooke heard the door open, so they went running around the garage barking. My mom told the neighbor to pick up his dogs, but he didn't. Meanwhile Kynda and Brooke are running straight towards them. So one of the dogs started to run away, while the other little dog stood there. Kynda and Brooke went chasing after the little dog. Now my mom is chasing after our dogs, and my dad has come outside and is running after them too. So there was the little dog, Kynda, Brooke, my mom and my dad running around the garage. Once they made it around the garage, the little dog ran into the garage and under a vehicle. According to my mom, Kynda was in her own world and her mission was to get that little dog. Kynda has been offleash, and has ran after a dog before, but I have always been there and she does come to me when I call her. She has only bit a dog once, but there was good reason for it (dog came running toward me and Kynda aggressivley so Kynda had a little dog fight with it then it left and she came to me). I have talked with a professional dog trainer about this. She told me that when Kynda barks at other dogs, I should totally ignore her. When we're on a walk and I see another dog, I give her all the leash I possibly can and give her a bunch of treats before she starts barking. When she does bark, I should keep walking but just ignore what she's doing. Her reason for this is because she thinks Kynda needs support to be aggressive, so when I "leave her" (her support) she then should be scared of the dog and will no longer bark. I tried it with her, but it did not work at all! I think Kynda wants to be dominent over the dogs she meets, but I'm not sure. What would be the best way to teach Kynda to accept other dogs better? Any advice would be great! Thanks, Jessica

Hello Jessica, Well I remember when Kynda was just a little pup and we wondered how her temperament would develop. Firstly you have done a great job socializing her and doing your part to make her a good family member. Kynda's genetic make up is very interesting but beneath all that I would venture to say she is 2/3 Guardian and 1/3 herder. So she is operating on 66% defensive drive and 33% prey drive.. (ok some will argue this but I am just going on the make up of the dog as 1/3 CO, 1/3 GP and 1/3 GSD.. is all) Her desire to defend you and what she considers her property should outweigh her desire to chase things.. unless she preceives them to be a danger to you or her property - The little dogs were probably not a danger to you - but .... Anyway, at 2 1/2 years that would be difficult to train out of Kynda and it's difficult to know "which" dog you are training. Is it the CO, GP or GSD or the aggregate of them... What we need to do if figure out what triggers her reaction and then work on getting her used to the trigger. Were the little ones females or males? What happened with the little dog who did not run - was it picked up? Did they ignore it? Knyda probably just needs to be desensitized to the presence of other dogs - so maybe taking her to a dogpark where there are many other dogs would help her to understand. Also the dogpart would not be on her turf and she may not want to protect it - but she will still protect you. There are a few other methods of doing this also. Have a look at [url=http://www.molosserdogs.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=54]this article[/url] and I'll send you something else in an email. Any other thoughts on the subject by our members with experience in this subject would be welcome.

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J

[quote=gsicard]Hello Jessica, Anyway, at 2 1/2 years that would be difficult to train out of Kynda and it's difficult to know "which" dog you are training. Is it the CO, GP or GSD or the aggregate of them... What we need to do if figure out what triggers her reaction and then work on getting her used to the trigger. Were the little ones females or males? What happened with the little dog who did not run - was it picked up? Did they ignore it?[/quote] Hi Gary, I looked at the link you sent, and it seems that Kynda has the "Protective aggression" not the "Dominent aggression". Yesterday we were out for a walk and my sister stopped to visit with someone who has some horses, they also have two dogs. I stayed at the other side of the road because Kynda doesn't like horses either. The dogs were behind a fence, sometimes they would bark playfully but Kynda didn't react to them at all. The dogs came out of the fence and went over to my sister and her dog, Kynda was still fine. As soon as the dog turned and started to walk towards me and Kynda, Kynda had to react. That seems like the protective aggression. Also the link mentioned that barking is usually a protective sign, and Kynda does lots of barking when she is being aggressive. I checked with my mom, she said the one little dog stayed on the ground the whole time. Kynda and Brooke even ran right past it when they were chasing the other little dog. I'm not sure if they were male or female. Kynda has gotten a lot better with neighborhood dogs if they stay in their yard. They can even bark and she doesn't bark back. She always reacts when dogs that she doesn't know approach us, or when we are camping if a strange dog barks she sometimes will bark back. When Kynda does act aggressivley to other dogs, what should I do? Do I correct her with the leash, ignore her as the one trainer told me to do, squirt her with water? I've heard that creating a negative experience (correcting her or squirting her with water) whenever she's around dogs will make her dislike dogs even more. Right now I praise her as much as I can while she's being good, and if she reacts, I tell her no, give a jerk on the leash and keep walking. How would I desensitize her? We don't have a dog park here, so it would be hard to get her around a group of dogs unless I did some more lessons with her. Thanks for the advice Gary, I appreciate it! Take care, Jess

J

Hi Wolf, I think Kynda's a perfect dog too, she's exactly what I was looking for when I was trying to find a dog. I don't want to change her, I would like for me to learn what to do when Kynda does act aggressivley. I also like the idea that Gary was saying about desensitizing her, I'd like to try that with her. Also we are going to find some signs that say "No Dogs Allowed" and put them on our fence. Lots of people seem to think that they can let their dogs loose in our yard which Kynda just hates. When people walk their dogs past our place, Kynda will bark at them. I tell her enough. If she doesn't listen, I call her, put her in a down and stay until she is behaving. Once she is good and quiet, I tell her okay and let her go look again. If she barks again, I tell her enough. If she's not quiet then we do the same thing again. I'm not sure if that's the right thing to do, but she does seem to listen to "enough" better now. I will be doing some more obedience work with her, and I'm also going to get the rest of my family to do some with her too. I've done all the training with her, so she listens to me quite well, but she can have selective hearing with the others. I don't know if she would have listened to me if I was there. She has before in the same kind of situation. Thanks Wolf. I would much rather have a dog that is dog aggressive then human aggressive. Kynda's great with people, I am really happy with her. Take care, Jess

Hi Jess: You wrote, "Thanks Wolf. I would much rather have a dog that is dog aggressive then human aggressive. Kynda's great with people, I am really happy with her." I understand this 100%, however, as a dog owner who LOVES my dogs, I would be in deep horror if your dog hurt my pet. In fact, I think I would be more outraged if your dog hurt my dog. People love their dogs and if your dog harms another persons pet, PEOPLE GET HURT JUST THE SAME. I do have some experience working with violent dogs, and I must say, in my experience, when people try to use UNWANTED aggression for good their is a high risk that something will go wrong. This being the case, not only are you in trouble, but your aggressive dog makes life hard on all dog owners. The basics must come first - if you do not have basic control of your dog when you are in the company of other pets, then you should establish this control first, and deal with "using the aggression" at a later date. Now I understand that some gurad dog trainers feel a thrill when they hear about a violent dog. They think like trainers (of course) and they want to use the dog's drive for some greater good. However, just like in LORD OF THE RINGS, their comes a point when you must understand, THE RING CANNOT BE USED FOR GOOD, it harms anyone who touches it. hehehhahaha :) You can see me on TV talking about this very subject here. http://www.puppywishes.com/Video%20Page.htm The link I just sent you is a sales page for my video on unwanted dog aggression. However, I am not trying to sell you anything here - I just think that the video clip may be helpful. It sounds to me like you do not have control over your dog when other dogs are around. YIKES! There are ways to get control, and you don't need to "change" your dog, just make her more whole. In the end, this advice not only helps you and your pooch - it helps everyone who owns dogs. It only takes one bad dog attack (on another dog or human) to start a whole media crazy where they talk about BSL. Here then, moreso now than ever, we must take care and present our dogs in a way that is good for all. Good luck Adam Stone www.puppywishes.com

is there fencing for your dogs?

May I ask why you feel that your dog has all those mixes is it....Have you seen the parents of the dog? because in looking at your pictures i just see a big GSD Another point is, you need fencing for dogs, I didnt see it mentioned in your posts and I didnt notice any in looking at your pictures (which are nice by the way)...In the US (not sure where you are from) It is against the law in most areas to have your dog off leash. I own a Central Asian & Caucasian and my dogs are never allowed off leash period, unless in a secured yard...I have commercial grade 6' fencing with top and bottom bar. My dogs arent in the yard unless I am home. When I am not home my dogs are in the house where they are safe Most dogs will chase off another dog getting too close to its territory....It is also hard to correct a problem when I am not there too see what is happening and your reaction to handling situations with your dog

J

Hi there, I had forgot about this topic. Kynda will be 4 years old in January and she's matured a lot since this incident. We have chain linked fencing for half the yard but unfortunately our dogs are a bit to smart for that and dug out within an hour of it being up. So we now have the underground fencing. Works great, the dogs never leave the yard so I don't have to worry about that. When it comes to other dogs now she's pretty good. I had her at the groomer last week and she didn't cause any problems. She's also great when I board her. We haven't had any dogs attempt to come into the yard though so it's hard to say what she'd do. When she's out of the yard she's always on leash. If someones dog comes into her yard then that's the dogs owners fault. Kynda's quite obedient for me, but unfortunately other people in the family aren't quite as consistent with her. She knows who she has to listen to and those who she doesn't have to take quite as seriously. Overall though she's a really great dog and is a real pleasure to own. She's quite laid back but if something does get her excited when she's in the yard I can just call her and she'll come right away without any problems. I've met the parents of Kynda. Her dad was a big 140 pound Great Pyrenees/German Shepherd and her mom was a smaller type of CO. Thanks for everyones input, Jessica http://community.webshots.com/user/aspenforsale

If you had secure fencing the dogs wouldnt be able to get out...but invisible fencing isnt secure so becareful...if the dog wants to, it can easily go though the fencing...i have watched many and if your dog has CO in it (which it doesnt look like it) invisible underground fencing will do very little if the dog wants to get out Just the other day...just so you know this is a true FYI story My brother friend has 2 GSD, the dogs were inside on the poach, a strange dog came onto the dogs property, both dogs went though the screen window to get the small dog on their own property...they are now being sued, lost home owners insurance etc...all this happened on the home owners property it may be the law but you may not win

Sorry but i need to give my two-cents... Kynda is in fact the dog she's supposed to be, but perhaps not where she's supposed to be... I'd love to have a CO, when I have acreage and a flock. These are very protective and territorial dogs who don't take kindly to happy-go-lucky boxers and labradors jumping in their face. When they've been bred soley as pets for awhile in our weird world of designer dogs, perhaps things will be...different.

Don't people just beat thier dogs anymore?

A

LGD + GSD = unpredictable ... or in other words, who'd want a CO with huge prey drive?! Does anyone know how this story (5 years later!) ended? Dan

Heee Dan, Now you say that.What about the Kangal.Isnt that almost the same?There are a lot of kangals here in the shelters because of their preydrive .Or do you think that raising and training comes around the corner with that breed.

Wht did we bring Lazarus back from the grave? Is the OP even a member still? Are these dogs even still alive??

[quote1250021280=Platz] Is the OP even a member still? Are these dogs even still alive?? [/quote1250021280] I don't know, but I'd like to find out if at all possible. Kynda was a great looking girl!

Yes. Her username is Jessica and she is still a member.