I need suggestions for the right breed :-)
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Well - I will be very brief since only two breeds came to mind after reading your post twice.
1. Central Asian Ovcharka
2. Kangal
I probably don't need to explain them since you have been reading a lot. Ok.. to be fair I wanted to respond now but have to leave - can write more later.
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I forgot to mention-- SHORT hair only :P
Thanks, I understand why you recommend those 2, they are high on the list but the COA's you see here are usually just plain ugly muds..
Other problem for that is the fact that cropping is illegal. and just like with the Doberman I think COA with ears is just not pretty.
But I could ofcourse get one from 'the east'..
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You have very good points there.. there are some ugly ones out there. Yes look to the east but do it fast as they are also adopting the silly notion of not cropping. Can you believe it.
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I might be a little partial. But I would recommend a Perro De Presa Canario.
They are great dogs. They are very protective of the family and property. They are leery of strangers but will accept them if you do. They are very agile for large dogs. I once saw one on Purina Pet Challenge or whatever they call it. They had a dock diving competition. This presa won the contest 3 years straight. Some people do weight pull with them. Most people do some type of protection work with them. The love water. they love to work. But they are very affectionate companion dogs too. They love to get attention from its family. If you show dogs they can be shown with or without the ears cropped. One of the breeders I know from the UK her dogs ears are cropped. She ships them to the States to another kennel I know. He crops them and get them trained to earn their CGC and then ships them back. I understand that she has to have some papers with her at all times from a licensed vet stating that the ears were cropped in the US. I like the ears cropped, but I;ve seen some that look nice without them being cropped. i wouldn't crop them if we had to keep those papers with us at all times.
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Beautiful dogs, butI think they are to small for me (6.3) and same as others they look not as nice with them ears...No offence of course its my personal idea..
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There are some very large "presa canario". Minimum weight for male is 50 kg or 110 lbs so that puts them in the weight range.
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No offense taken. I prefer the ears cropped too. I drive over 4 hours to this one vet to get my ears done. They are the best that I know that is remotely close to me.
How big of a dog you want? I have a female pup that was over 110lbs. She is on the large side for a female but certainly not the largest. The average male is around 125lbs. I have a friend that has 110 acres farm. When I visit him with my dogs we run them with his golf carts. My dogs and his dogs cam outrun the golf cart. My son takes them for bike rides with him. Of course they can outrun the bike, but he has on leash and then they just keep up with him. But with the golf carts it is all off leash. They can give us a head start and pass us by and then wait for us only to leave us again.
But another big dog you can look at would be a Tosa, Bull Mastiff, or South African Boerboel. Thise are a few that come to mind that are larger than a presa.
I've had Rotts, American Bulldogs, GSD but the presa is my favorite of them. They are special. I haven't owned one but I like the caucasian ovcharka. The only thing that kept me from getting one is that I don't want another long hair dog that shed a lot. I have an ACD that I rescued. I love him, but the hair everywhere is too much.
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I am a huge fan of Mojo Ysterberg Mastiff's but they are not avallable that much.
Because there are bunch of different organisations (SABT, EBBASA and BB international) all sort off claiming they represent the true BB so there is a range in looks and character. For a dog that is not FCI recognised I think that they should work together and get one firm breed-standard.
But that doesn't take away that there are a lot of very VERY awesome Boerboels out there! Another one in the top 5 of my list (high)
Bull Mastiffs i just do not like with the short nose. Tosa's are very rare in .nl so I have only seen 3 in real life (all on a dog show) and all looked different..some I see online are awesome tho.
I would like a Old English Mastiff size Dobermann or a OEM with the brain of a BB or COA lol
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all right then.. seems like you would like to have a Bullmastiff. :)
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You said top 5 list. But you haven't given us the list other than Boerboel. The Mojo Ysterberg Mastiff is a boerboel. You had a Fila mix. the Fila might not be good if you want it to accept company. An English Mastiff might not be good as they probably won't run much on your bike ride.
A great dane is a large dog. it can provide protection. I should be ale to accept strangers if taught to do so. But we don't know how long or hard your bike rides are. The larger the dog the harder it will be on the dog lasting for a nice hard bike ride.
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fair enough, this my list so far:
1: Ysterberg BB
2: Fila
3: COA
4: Cane Corso
5: Dogo argentino
Those caught my eye and btw that riding along a bike is demand just got downgraded to a 'would be nice'.
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Ok then.. so no slobbering, and the Teenagers and 5 year old kids.. hummm...
You can drop the Fila from your list. As a general healthy dog/sane doge issue.. I would also drop the Dogo Argentino.. Sooooo.... CAO is now second :)
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Okay. The Fila is out like I sated before. They are genetically supposed to not like humans other than their immediate family.
"The Fila is NOT a breed for the average pet owner. You need to know what the Fila Brasileiro is about and what it takes to own one. If you choose to raise your Fila using the methods that produce a dog who is "Ojeriza" to strangers (distrustful of), you must decide if your lifestyle will allow a protective breed that is anti-social with strangers and decide if you have the ability to control the dog. If you have a lot of friends and relatives coming in and out of your home you may want to consider another breed."
The cane corso must be out too as it must not be big enough. The cane corso and the presa or about the same size on average. Both get their eats cropped. The look a lot alike. The biggest exception is the corso also will get their tails docked.
COA? is this the same thing as a caucasian ovcharka? If so I love them too. But I like most dogs that are good protection dogs. But they have long hair. I met a AKC and UKC judge that told me that in dog shows they are taught not to even touch the dog. They are supposed to touch the dogs when they have them stand for an exam. it simulates what would e done if the dog is being examined by a vet. But because of the temperament they do not touch them so that they don;t risk getting bit. But I did see some very nice ones and those judges did touch the dogs. But i also some the temper in those dogs too, but as long as the owner corrected them quickly they were able to get the dogs back under control. The only reason I don;t own one is the long hair. Plus it gets rather hot and humid here. I don't want the dog to have to go through the rough summers here.
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What's a COA? I should not post on xmass night round 2.30. I meant of course CAO (central asian ovcharka)
Believe me I know about Ojeriza, I am in contact with some European breeders for a couple of years. Although some of them tell me that the Ojeriza has been slowly breed out/down a bit and we do not get a lot of folks over, I don't think it would be wise because we DO get kids over to play and I think I couldn't live with myself is my dog would hurt some kid (mine or someone else) .
Btw, the no touch part is also in place for the Fila at shows.
Maximus, whats wrong with the Dogo's health? And I don't think I mentioned no slobbering?
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For the most part the Dogo will suffer from the same ailments that affect large breed dogs, but they are particularly susceptible to two.
"Deafness - Despite the fact that the Dogo is a relatively rare breed in North America, it still has a few genetic problems. The one genetic fault that comes with the breed, because it is a white coated dog, is deafness. It is estimated that about ten percent of Dogos are born deaf and this is the reason why most reputable breeders have their Dogo Argentino puppies B.A.E.R tested.
Skin problems - Because of its white color and very short coat, the Dogo´s skin is more sensitive than many other dogs´. Many Dogos are prone to skin allergies and/or irritations, so when bathing a Dogo one should always use a very gentle shampoo. Also, Dogos can easily sunburn so if kept outside for a long period of time, they need some shade!"
The two issues above are from dogo.com but there are a few other particular shortcomings of the Dogo. We have a few breeders on here so maybe they will chime in. However, if properly bred and cared for a Dogo Argentino can be a great protector and companion.
About Slobbering - I took note of the OEM, Cane Corso, and Dogo - I they do slobber to some degree.
One of the earlier suggestions was for the Central Asian Ovcharka and the Kangal. I have not seen any discussion about the Kangal
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Kangal... some are really great looking dogs, but the most I see in the Netherlands are golden retrievers on steroids.... but beside that I just don't feel a connection with them.
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most I see in the Netherlands are golden retrievers on steroids....Those are probably Anatolian Shepherds - the Kangal is very distinct and not to be mistaken for a Golden Retriever at all... Check out our old album of Kangal Photos
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By the way there are some great anatolians/kangals. Most owners are turkisch.
The dog that was missing a few years ago was from a top kangal breeder in Holland , also used for dogfights in NL.
That why he promised a reward of 10.000 euro.
They are here believe me and defendly no retrievers on steroids
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Oke now I am confused:
Our dogs authority gives all these names to the same dog: Çoban köpe?i. Kangal, Anatolian Shepherd, Karabash and Kangal,
The FCI doesn't list Kangal but only:
Anatolia (F.C.I.) Coban Köpegi (331) (Anatolian Shepherd Dog) And even the Amercan kennel club does not list a kangal, but I can find the Anatolian Sheperd?
I know for sure that I read about the Kangal on one of those before?
Gary the link doesn't show me any pics and I cant login there with current credentials?
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Desiree, I remember that one he was awesome looking yes. Did they ever find that thing?
ps
Ik zat al te wachten tot je zou reageren :)
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Gary the link doesn't show me any pics and I cant login there with current credentials?
ohhhh... yep.. that is being corrected right now.. you should be able to see photos as they are rebuilt.
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yes, they have him back.
In my gallery inar is playing with an anatolian sheppard.
The head is smaller than the kangal.
Some people say the anatolian and the kangal are the same (i dont think so).
This is a discussion between breeders, owners and turkisch people and other people for years.
But most dogs in Holland are anatolians and no kangals.
Ow and the BOZ-kangal created almost his own breed.
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here is a good read on the "take your pick Kopegi" lol. http://www.reocities.com/theanatolianshepherddog/akbasdog.htm
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The dogo is a hunting dog.
My co doesnt slobber, i can ride my bike and he runs with me, no problem at all but i dont have a huge co and he doesnt need any training to protect. He allows friends of my sonns inside as long they are not mature and dont show agression.
By the way why no sheppard?
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Sheppard as in German Sheppard?
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Very good point. The German Shepherd is a proven breed for this kind of work and should do quite well.
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GDS are great dogs. The are great working dogs.
But I would have to wonder based on what he said he is looking for if that would be a right fit.
The GSD while not being long hair unless it a variety is not a short hair dog. The can low a coat. If a 125 to 135lbs presa is too little than the most GSD will be too little too. The GSD in not as quiet of a breed as a Presa on average.
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I am wondering, if i look at your beautiful presa waterdog in combination with slobber, i wonder if the presa is the right breed )))))
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No. It is too small....lol
So far the only dog that has met his requirements as I can tell are the Boerboel. I like them too.
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No. It is too small....lol
So far the only dog that has met his requirements as I can tell are the Boerboel. I like them too.
I am very much tempted to go with you there, the GS is just NOT my dog *despite all health issues they have bred into them*, I just think they are (too small) sneaky bastits :P )
The Central Asian Ovcharka are great but they to much hair and is to independent for my liking and I think these dogs need lots of room all day all the time and a 'job' all day, the rest is just to small so to best choice will be a Boerboel and I prefer a Ysterberg line.
And I still cannot find anywhere that I stated that I do not like drool.. :P
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LOL
You can probably find some Boerboel from that line.
I'm not sure but I don't think she was saying you don't like slobber. She has made several comments usinf slobber. I think she is saying slobber is a good thing...LOL
But as for as Molosser dogs the Presa is considered a dry mouth dog. But that doesn't mean you won't get one the slobbers. Non of my female presas drool. But a male import I got from Serbia he drools. When I show him I have to try to remember to bring a slobber towel. I hope h will be my future stud. I will wait until I get his hips OFA certified. I won't breed him unless it is good. His parents had good hip scores.
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What about a serbien defence dog?
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The SOP would excel at the job.
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That is an interesting choice. Personally I don;t know anything about that breed. I had to look them u. I see they do make good protection dogs and are agile. It could be what you are wanting. Now I have to do some more research on them so that I can be well informed.
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I know what a sob is but a SOP? I'll need to google that one lol (after i fixed my laptop searching on this phone sucks)
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Are you sure those are even dogs and not lions? LOL
Nah that one dog must be a freak of nature, the others I saw have normal teeth pretty awesome looking dogs thou! I do not think these are for sale that easy.
http://molosserdogs.com/m/articles/view/951-serbian-defense-dog
http://nemanjaboskov.hubpages.com/hub/The-Serbian-Defense-Dog
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I think I saw that sabe picture when I was looking them up.
Another dog is the American Bulldog that might be in the category of what you might consider.
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That photo Is photoshopped. I saw a breeder online here ill find site.
Site: http://bunda.rs/serbiandefencedog/
Might be worth looking at.
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What about a Bully Kutta?
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I don't have any experience with the Bully kutta. I have looked them up before. I know a guy that was selling some. He used to have presa. Then he started talking about the Bully Kutta. I don't know if he is doing anything with dogs anymore. But if you want a dog that can be around stranger as you children friends according to what I have read the bully kutta is not the dog.
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I love the breed in fact it is one my favourite breeds. But I dont think they would be the best choice for your family. Also if you are looking for a top notch bully kutta you have to get it from Pakistan because the ones in the uk and Europe are usaully fakes and have problems with health and temp. But that being said I just think other dogs would suit your needs better. And like I said getting a real bully kutta is VERY hard. There are also different variants of bully kutta such as the nagi bully kutta and many more. You where talking about earlier Howe you think a cao is independent so is a bully kutta. Bully kutta are also extremely aggressive but I am sure you could handle one. But I think there are a lot better guarding breeds for you. Such as boerboel, presa, Sop, bandog.
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What's wrong with a Sop? A bully kutta is harder to get if that's what your worrying about.
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I was wondering about how hard it would be to get a bully kutta. I would think it would have been difficult to get one, especially one of good quality. I could only guess as I have never looked seriously at them for myself. I liked what I have seen of their attitude when doing some guarding type work. But it wasn't for me.
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Some Bully Kutta pups were advertised on her about 2 months ago.
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Do you think they where good quality?
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Yes! I thought there were. Please contact this member who had or may still Bully Kutta Pups for sale. He can provide more information.
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Strange my post ain't here,
In short:
I only mentioned the Kutta out of interest, am wondering if anyone owns one and how they are in a family. Should have mad the post so that was more clear sorry.
I think I the Ysterberg BB still is favorite but some of the serbien defence dog pictures and youtube made me think, some of these are ridiculous awesome to...
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Too bad they wouldn't do well here in Canada with the cold weather.
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Hey do you guys know if they can handle the cold? Also have read bully kutta aren't like an lgd or fila that is naturally dislike of strangers you have to train them for personal protection. but I dont know if that is true I am still researching about this breed.
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