Presa's

Anyone have 1st hand experience of the Presa. Good family dog? Guards dogs? Some that I have seen doing schutzhund type sleeve work appear tooo focussed on the sleeve - not the man. I do not like to see that from a guardian! Any experiences of what they are like to own?

13 years, 11 dogs, 4 litters, a breed club president and rescue volunteer. Good with family, when properly owned and taught manners. As far as guard dogs, they can be. of course, depends on ow you define "guard dog". Dog who will warn you of strangers, or dog who will take down stangers? My website has some things to learn about the breed, myths about it and how to shop for one. It's under renovation, so please excuse some of the missteps. www.hooliganacres.com

[quote=wolfie]Anyone have 1st hand experience of the Presa. Good family dog? Guards dogs? Some that I have seen doing schutzhund type sleeve work appear tooo focussed on the sleeve - not the man. I do not like to see that from a guardian! Any experiences of what they are like to own?[/quote] Hi Wolfie I may not have owned the breed as long at PresaDam but I do have 5 of them and can say I truly love the breed. They have been good with my son to my friends kids. I can walk my around at dog shows and they are very stable around people and other dogs. But they are VERY good guardians in my yard. When training in Schutzhund, the dogs are trained to believe the sleeve is there prize and the decoy is the extension of that toy. What I like about Schutzhund is the focus the dogs learn and how obedient they are to the commands. I do believe in my yard if my dogs had to guard this house they would w/ all they have been trained in. Hope your questions have been answered. Deb

Thanks for thr replies. Deb do you feel they are real guardians as opposed to very impressive watch dogs? Are they very alert or not as alert as some of the well known guards (Rotty for example?) Whats about their level of intelligence - compareable to what breed would you say? Lastly do you find them to be very healthy? Many thanks

[quote=wolfie]Deb do you feel they are real guardians as opposed to very impressive watch dogs?[/quote] Yes, I see a real guardian in them, when they are on my yard or in my truck. I like how stable they are and can be. Now I have seen some that come to shows that I would NEVER touch and even away from the show world. To many breeders in this breed (and in others too) get kennel blindness and do not start seeing the problems that arise in there line. Like submission, or wrong temper in both directions. [quote=wolfie]Are they very alert or not as alert as some of the well known guards (Rotty for example?)[/quote] I would defentalety see there alert. Now I will say it comes in different degrees but again all breeds in the guardian world have the same. You see some age slower and some age quickly. [quote=wolfie]Whats about their level of intelligence - compareable to what breed would you say?[/quote] I have a problem with comparing them with American Bulldogs all the time, as I had ABs for yrs before I got into the Presa's And just like any other guardian breed you have some that learn quickly and some that are a bit slower. Drago (my brindle male) learns things very fast and wants to work for me as much as possible. [quote=wolfie]Lastly do you find them to be very healthy? [/quote] I think you have to look into your breeder and how they have raised there dogs. I have seen some breeders have dogs die on them by the age of 7 yrs old and some that last until they are 10 to 12 yrs. So if you look into a breeder and there own dogs seem to have medical problems then you should really stay away. I know when I look for a pup I ask about medical issues that the parents have had. My it be from Kennel Cough to get wounded. As I up in coming breeder in this breed I have no problem giving people knowledge of the dogs they may get a pup out of. Please let me know if I can answer anything else. Deb

Thanks for the compliments. We've been trying to do our best for this breed since we got into it. We've been to the CI, one of the first American breeders to make the trip in those days. We got he Majoreros to understand the presa better, although to be honest we only wanted one, we were gifted with 2. The Majoreros are a trip, to me. They remind me of ugly border collies. But I am generally NOT a livestock guardian person, so some of it may be that instinct and I'm just not used to it. They tolerate the heat reasonably well, as mine are kenneled outside, with and indoor/outdoor run in a small garage. They have a window AC unit to keep the temp down during the summer for them and 2 of the presas, and seem content enough. I do notice that mine will shed their coats for summer, and get the undercoat for winter, but I cannot say if this is an adaption to our conditions in Virginia, or typical for the breed. AS far as it's contribution, there are a small percentage of fanciers that will try to sell you that you have to cross the Majorero in periodically to the presa to have "authentic" lines. :roll: That's like crossing the Bull Terrier back into the Dogo Argentino to keep it real... I have seen presa X Majorero crosses, and let's just say you would know it if it was that close in your lines, and it wouldn't be pretty. I feel that you can see similarities in the two breeds, but not so much a physical trait. I see their fearlessness at times echoed in the presa. Also their aloofness. My female Majorero will not back down from any dog, including the uber bitchy alpha female presa I used to have. The female Maj. dominated pretty much everyone on the property, which is funny since's she's almost the smallest. They're very busy, very territorial and very vocal. Which is why they now live outside LOL. I have had a few of these traits expressed more in some dogs then others. I had a hard time telling the alpha bitch's bark from the Majoreros some times. The male Majorero and the alpha female presa were the only two on my yard with live bites. Last year one of our Canarian friends came over to compete in our club's national presa show. His family owned about 6 Maj's. He told us the story of how each Maj had it's own territory within the property, and stuck to it. They didn't fight each other, and the tolerated/liked the family. but there was a low stone fence that surrounded part of the property, and he would tell of people standing on the other side and be fine, but if they leaned over it, or stretched out to pet one of them, they would get bit. If by "English parentage" you mean the more mastiffy side, I don't think you can acurately say that. Unfortunately many countries, including Spain and the US, are still pretending that health problems don't exist in this breed- particularly HD. We've made great headway, but I don't think you can say one type vs the other have the advantage with any scientific certainty. I do like to think that the community that can trace their dogs directly to Spain/CI (who some would deem the mastiffy type) have an edge in overall testing number for hips :wink:

So how would you compare a Presa to say your average guardian. Say a Rotty for example?

This is like the third time in a month's span that someone has asked me to compare the presa to a Rottie :lol: The Rottie must be the gold standard guardian :!: I really don't have any Rottie experience, other then one who visited my house and got her ass bit and run off by my uber bitch....bu then again I don't think she was much of a Rottie :twisted: The presa as a breed is not consistent enough as a guardian to close your eyes and point and take home a personal guard. Don't get me wrong, there are quite a few good dogs and breeders, but you have to do your research and LOOK for it. Then they're the difference between a watch dog and a PP dog, which a lot of people, even breeders in this breed, don't understand. Most presas are going to put on a impressive display when you come onto the property, and you will get a lot of people who will tell you they're dogs will "take care of it", but you just don't know for sure until it happens. The presa comes into its first version of adult temperment a little over 1 year of age. First thing that kicks in is usually dog aggression, and some territoriality. Then as the second year progresses, you'll see more of it's protective instinct/manner arrive. A good dog that you research and look for, I think is comparable to most other guardian breeds.

Thanks for the honest answer. Breeders will genuinely believe that their dogs portraying great watchdog ability is proof that they are real guardians. I think people often use the Rotty as a yard-stick for guardians temperament. Because a good one has all the attributes required for guarding. "It does exactly what it says on the tin!" So to speak. Alert but not too vocal, biddable,intelligent, poweful and good family dog. And the reputation to make strangers beware. Whereas the LGD is no where near as biddable. The Presa no where near as intelligent. GSD too vocal, not as poweful. Many LGD's have difficult to manage coats as well! ETC, ETC However these Rotts are quite hard to find. But a good one is hard to beat! And they even have a owner friendly coat that is very easy to manage. I sure hope that they are not the next dog to go on the DDA !!!

I wouldn't say they're not intelligent. My husband and I prefer "basic" or "simple" LOL. But I think a lot of it has to do with breeding, training and early stimulation. We have one from a breeder friend who is almost eerily intelligent. She picked up on words and phrases in days, and is the most even tempered one in the house. She is also the most tempermentally balanced. I know her breeders started off with her litter doing the very early (days old) stimulation, and early focusing program she now uses routinely. Unfortunately my breeder friend, and a few others like her, are the minority. Most "breeders" just get 2 dogs with sellable potential (i.e. "Ch bloodlines", "working bloodlines", rustic lines etc) and breed them together and sell th pups as soon as they can get them out the door. they manage to get them housetrained, and get their shots, and that's about it. I have some presa's more vocal then others. Those I blame on the Majoreros :lol: . Some more biddable then others, but that's usually to deficent training. But the only REAL way to know the dog is a real guardian is for it to really guard- and I don't mean working trials neccessarily either. Husband had a friend who was a K9 cop. Had a malinois as a second partner (first GSD, retired). Mal was all trainedup, from supposedly good stock. They were out on a call, and the cop got attacked by the perp, drug down to the ground. Kept calling on the dog, but it just sat there and watched :roll: Needless to say, dog was relieved of duty after that...

Bobobman - if ypu re-read what I said - I did not say or was I implying the Presa was Dumb. I was pointing out that in comparison to a good Rotty. By intelligent - I dont simply mean a dog that whilst training obeys instructions I have had a number of dogs GSD's included but have found Rotts as intelligent. Albeit in a slightly different way! Presadam - Thanks for your valued input - Some excellent points. You give a great insight into the Presa world.