ruffian amstaff

The line got started back in the 1930's in Michigan and is named after a dog Ch.Ruffian who was produced by a Plymouth breeder Floyd Klump but owned by someone else whose name escapes me at the moment. The initial use of Weimaraner blood to produce one of Ch.Ruffian's parents (can't remember whether his dam Dina or his sire Deuce was supposedly 50% Weimaraner) has been rumoured since the very beginning and thus used as an explanation for the appearance of blue coats in the line, but whether that was the case or not isn't certain, since blue bull-n-terriers existed in Scotland from where they've spread into Ireland and likely managed to sneak into America with the early immigrants. Some folks refer to a non-existent "Ruffian strain of American Pit Bull Terriers" when explaining blue coats in the APBT, when the only Ruffian bloodline has always been the American Staffordshire Terrier one, with no history of any work-based selection whatsoever. These AmStaffs have always been valued for their physical beauty and size, despite the blue colour associated with the strain not being unanimously welcomed initially. The temperament that the majority of breeders of the strain aspired to achieve over the past 50 years in their dogs has been that of a non-confrontational, gentle and trainable AmStaff with no dog-aggression or hunting drives. In any case, the line has always been a strictly Show line and that direction has been maintained to this day.

I'm not familiar with the South-African breeder you're referring to, so I can't comment on his line, but the link you've provided shows dogs with some (English) Staffordshire Bull Terrier influence, no doubt due to the European import blood since there are quite a few AmStaff lines over there, especially in eastern Europe that were established by crossing Pits and AmStaffs with English Staffies some 15 years ago. I'm in no way implying that your breeder's dogs are crosses, just that their appearance suggests a connection to the Hungarian, Polish and Russian stock which was initially a combination of aforementioned breeds, but has since been purified and is now a straight AmStaff population with a recognizable appearance which still differs a bit from the common American type. Nothing wrong with that, variety is the spice of life.

Thanks, Happy New Year to you too and looking forward to pics of your dog. :D

[blockquote]When one speaks about the Ruffian line, it is essential to remember the name of Clayton Harriman. The first dog of C Harriman was a male produced in 1938 by F.C. Klump, resulting from Klump' S Deuce and Klump' S Black Dina. This same year 1938, C Harriman changed registration of his dog UKC from to the AKC and this male was registed in the AKC under the name of The Ruffian. Name RUFFIAN had just made its appearance in the history from the breed. Also owner of a female answering in the name of Calamity Ann, resulting from Schroeder S Jiggs and Schroeder S Kay, Harriman married her with The Ruffian to give birth amongst other things has Ch.Ruffian Headlinght Hal and Ch.Ruffian Our Teenie. The marriage of Our Teenie with the male Ch.Martin' S Tony produced Ch.Dreadnaught, future dog breeder W.D Harper under the famous Har Wyn name. Thereafter Harriman decided to sell Ch.Ruffian Headlight Hal to the breeder W.Whitaker. Whitaker continued and looked further into the work initiated by Harriman, under the Jollyscamp name, Journalist for the official gazette of the AKC "Pickups and Scratches" and profiting from a certain notoriety in the canine world, it also contributed in the fifties the possibility of registering the UKC dogs has AKC. Thus giving the possibility to Ch.Knight Crusader (Ch.Rossmore' S Naughty Night Cox X Ch.Gallant Ruff Suzie Q) to become one of the pillars of the Crusader line. By Ady.B.Mançon[/blockquote] http://lil.amstaff.free.fr/ruffian.htm http://sunbolt1.tripod.com/Ruffiangreats/page1.html

your welcome im not shure of it but there's rumours about maurice carver selling "blue nose curs" and i read some where that he did "flirt" with female amstaff breeder that bred ruffian dogs. maybe people can enlighten you about it.

Ruffian amstaff strain/line goes back too "tudors black jack"every single one, And although i "have" heard of the wiemeraner theroy,It is more likely that it was infact "black jacks" ancestors that carryed the diluted black trait,"blue" in there genes as did "black jack',inherited from blue paul's.. Black jacks ped,note the names of the dogs in the pedigree. http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=15094 As much as i personaly dislike blue apbts or amstaffs,the writen history of the dogs seems to pop up in the pure bred apbt past,very,very rarely of course. It is said lightner had red nose dogs and black and blue dogs,one by the name of "colarado imp 2' In Wayne D. Brown's book HISTORY OF THE AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER, on pages 25 and 26 he note’s that in the late 1930’s one of the most important bloodlines of Pit Bulls were the Lightner dogs. He illustrates that in the conventions of 1936 and 1937, there were Lightner dogs of the dark variety and Lightner dogs of the red nose variety, and a classic confrontation of the two. When Bob Hemphill wrote Lightner that they were going to use Hall's Searcy Jeff, of the red nose Lightner strain, in the Oklahoma Convention of 1936 at Medicine Park Oklahoma, Lightner wrote back that the red nose blood in Jeff was as game was would ever be bred, and, further that the black and blue breeding in (Runyon's Colorado) Imp (II) was as game as would ever be bred...So, the contest between Hall's Searcy Jeff and Runyon's Colorado Imp II at the Oklahoma Convention of 1936 was a classic confrontation between the red nose Lightner dogs and the dark Lightner dogs. Earl Tudor handled Imp and he proved to be game. Jeff beat Imp in 54 minutes. Later, Hall's Searcy Jeff was to beat Imp's brother Colorado Dan, also...After Searcy Jeff had beaten Colorado Imp II and Colorado Dan, their owner, Jeff Runyon, quit the game and sold his dogs. This is one of the few times I have ever found in literature, blue dogs before 1936. The year 1936 was the year the AKC finally recognized the, as it was then known, Stafforshire Terrier. This was the year that the red nose dogs defeated the blue blooded dogs The dogs of this blood was sold but it is not said who to, although it is mentioned that at least some of these dogs found their way to Joe Corvino who, for a time at least, was involved in the formation of the AKC American Staffordshire Terriers. Dogmen wanted winning GAME dogs back then, and Imp certainly proved his gameness that day against Jeff, in a stumbling scratch. Many a true dogmen would have been more than happy to have an Imp bred dog in their yard. Back then game losers weren’t penalized, and were worthy of being bred. I know that AmStaff people regard the red noses with abhorrence, and I also know that Game folks today don't care for the blue color. Actually most of them can’t stand it at all because most of the time (but not always) a blue dog stands for being bred for looks and looks alone. I do have to wonder though what the American Pit Bull Terrier would look like today if Imp II had won that fight compared to the American Staffordshire Terrier?

[quote=troy]you got it all wrong pal. i am not a dog fighter PERIOD and certainly my question has nothing to do with who beat who. stick to the point of the topic :?[/quote]i never said you were? Basic facts state that the line"ruffian"was founded off of Tudors blackjack among other lines[colby],a game bred male carrying the diluted gene,thats why you find blue staffs in the ruffian line. The argument is made that blue comes from a closed gene pool and is a amstaff trait,not apbt trait,but the artical [provided only for historic reasons],states that there were infact a few blue apbts just prior to the registering of the amstaff in 1936... I believe off hand the first ch ruffian dog being a brindle/white dog named the "ruffian".It is a good staff strain in my opinion,much better than gaff or york[not so over done].heres a photo of ch ruffian born 1938 i believe original name "ukc brodway jones"..

[quote=troy] tell me this, why did the colouring and temperament changed.[/quote] Well,The coloring and temperment changes come from linebreeding/inbreeding and selection of the desired traits/or goals of the breeder. Since amstaffs were selected more for there confrimation and less on there ability and drives you'll get a mellower dog alot of the time,not always of course,Many actually seem to consider ruffian a line of functional or working type staff as compared to some of the abominations out there registered as amstaff,I love ruffian dogs.. And as a matter of fact,the ruffian amstaff is alot closer to the real apbt than many of the duel registered strains of u.k.c apbt out there today. Many of the strains of staff from the past,that have been extinct in a pure form were added into the ruffian strain over the years such as tacoma and x-pert. [quote=troy]todays rufian are very cool around other dogs and animals. [/quote]Again the mellow nature comes from selection for other drives and temperment,although im not to sure how mellow they are around other dogs,i figure that there pretty aggresive,they just lack the gameness of the ancestors since it wasnt a factor in there selection.. I know my dog [amstaff]wont look for a fight or isnt fight crazy,but if left to his own devices around another dog there very well could/would be issue's..... [quote=troy] BY THE WAY, WELCOME TO THE FORUM.[/quote] Thank you!!

someone told me that the blue...in england meant red in the old days.

[quote=darez]someone told me that the blue...in england meant red in the old days.[/quote]The blue type of fighting bull and terrier from the u.k was called a blue paul,These dogs would also give birth to a red coated dog's,that may or may not of been developed as a seperate strain in sottland called a red smut.So both color had accoured before entrance to the usa.

thanks

[quote=troy] keith, you mentioned x-pert. tell me more [/quote] heres some info on x-pert,real good site and of course the now extinct tacoma line,one of the best,makes that gaff and ginny york[lol]stuff look real bad... http://www.lamasko.com/x-pert/ http://lil.amstaff.free.fr/tacoma.htm