THANK YOU SHOWIES !!!!!!!

Good article. There's a few parts here and there that I don't totally agree on, but that's simply because they leave the paragraph open and don't explain exactly in which contexts and specific situations they're referring to. Overall, good article. :D

I enjoyed the article and it raised many questions in my mind. Firstly, if the people who register their dogs with the Kennel Club(?) want to have these registries opened again, what gives the KC the right to refuse them? I was under the impression that a club was a democratically run body, with an elected committee. Without the breeders (Kennels), it would no longer be a Kennel Club, would it? Failing the support of most of the breeders, what is there to stop anyone from bringing new blood into a breeding program from a different, but similar breed? Without mandatory DNA testing, it would be impossible to prove the paternity of a litter. I think we are all aware that this is already being done 'under the table' in certain breeds, so why all the fuss? Open the registries to well-planned and judicious out-crosses and I am sure that we will see excellent results, without much loss of type in an already drastically inbred line. In closing, I think that we will continue to ruin dog breeds as long as we allow governing bodies like the Kennel Club, or the Kennel Union as we have here, to make our decisions for us.

thats been my biggest arguement it what i call (paper tigers). breeding should be fuction first PERIOD.the last thing a hog or a person ask when there but is being chewed up do you have a pedigree. Realdogs

So breeding a Dogo Argentino to a Dogo Argentino or a Beagle to a Beagle is wrong. Instead we should get rid of regristies and allow any breed to mate with any breed?

No one said that it was wrong to breed two purebred dogs to one another. I would think that the point which is being made is that it would be better by far to use a different breed to save/better a bloodline than to rather insist on using only purebred dogs when the breed is going down the drain as a direct result. This is something I used to feel strongly about myself until I started studying the health problems in the breed I am interested in. Most of the problems stem from too much inbreeding and, as a result of the popular sire effect, most of the dogs now carry the same - or similar bloodlines. This has caused the setting of various genetic faults in most of the bloodlines which cannot be corrected without the judicious use of a breed without the same problems, although it will probably add a few others of it's own to the stew. IMO, it would be better to take the chance of making a few small changes to achieve a far more important objective - healthier dogs. This is a highly contentious subject and, if we are not willing to look at it from a purely logical standpoint, we will spend the rest of eternity arguing about it. The question that comes to mind is; will our dogs still exist to be lying at our feet before this argument becomes moot?

I have to agree with you there John. Very good posting.

I just re-read my post and perhaps I should have worded it differently,sorry. Yes Jaboa, I understand what you mean. I just figure it was another "Dogs shows ruin breeds article". Well, in a way it is. He says instead of inbreeding(which results in poor health) so much to achieve that specific type whether being for show or not. We should outcross to other breeds for improved health. For Jaboa and Tiago, I know very well your views. Lets use the Neapolitan Mastiff for an example. I know you 2 are against heavy or moderate inbreeding to achieve that extra type(wrinkle) whether for show or not. So what is your opinions of those "sneaky" :o Mastinaros who have used Mastiffs or Great Danes with their Mastini? Ofcourse they hide the facts of this, but did they improve the blood somewhat?

My opinion is that neither of the breeds mentioned is helpful to a breed that more or less shares the same issues. How can you improve something when you are introducing dogs that bloat easily, that are overdone (OEM), have weak hearts (GD), poor drive? Of course there are exceptions to this rule, but even then those are plagued with recessives that down the line tend to surface... Correction, I am against inbreeding for conformational purposes, because when put in a performance setting, inbreeding serves a purpose. If you dont put your genetic material to a test, you never know what kind of recessives popped up when inbred. If you look at many performance breeding programs nowadays, you will notice that every practice has a place. Both inbreeding and outcrossing...Just gotta know how to use them.

When it comes to lines that can no longer breed healthy, functional animals, I would say that 'sneaky' = expediency. And no, I would not use the Dane or the OEM either...

Jaboa, I understand what you are trying to say and I hope I do not give a sense of hostility. I am not offended becuase I know there is a great mutual respect 8) . What I am trying to ask is; What do you or anyone think about a litter between a heavy/or moderate inbred Mastino and a outside breed, be it Mastiff, GD, or anything. 38% is a high number, but it should not be a suprise considering the Dogo Argentino since more and more people are breeding them. How many samples were accounted for the Neapolitan Mastiff? How does the term " loose connective tissue" relate to these scores? Thanks for the input Gillian and Tiago. What breed would you use? Mastino cross, APBT, DDB, SAB, PRESA, CC?

[quote=senor]What do you or anyone think about a litter between a heavy/or moderate inbred Mastino and a outside breed, be it Mastiff, GD, or anything. [/quote] As far as I'm concerned, first off it would depend on what the purpose of the breeding would be. If you're breeding a DDB to a Belgian Mal (for an extreme example), it's obviously a long shot for keeping a certian type, relative temerament, etc. so there should be at least SOME kind of forethought in exactly what the goal of improvement, or at least workability is. That said, I think outcrosses, generally, are a good thing for ANY breed. Once the stud books are closed the gene pool will only become more and more limited - especially in situations where a dog is studded out and bred to bitch after bitch simply because he has a show champion title.