What would be the best LGD for MY situation?
@ CANISDIRUS
Interesting link, i'd like to see more of those specimens, they look like working dogs. Can u provide a direct link please?
Ciao
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Hi!
I am not really active on this forum, although I have read many topics and have browsed through the many breeds listed on this site....I used to own a karst shepherd dog and she was very intense at protecting our family and property. However, our property used to be a fenced in yard and a house so it wasn't that big. What I have noticed is that she was great at protecting BUT only if she saw the threat - meaning that she was not really patrolling around. This was OK in a small yard, but in a bigger property we have now (3 hectares - fenced) she sometimes missed is someone was to approach - this is not desired of course...Tho, in her defence I have to say that she was pretty old already when we moved, so maybe her not patrolling has to do with her age also, I don't know....
Anyways, I have a pet dog now who is not a good protection dog and I am looking to add two dogs evantually.
We keep goats, sheep and chicken. I am looking for a dog that will guard them AND our family (and property). My curcumstances however, are perhaps not so typical. We do not have very large predators in our area - only foxes, occasional jackal and smaller predators that would only pose a danger to chickens. We do get occasional stray dogs but since the property is fenced they do not come in. However - we live in a remote area and would like a dog to defend us (and livestock) from HUMANs as well. And because of this last reason I am not too sure which breed to choose. Cause I want not just protection from predators but from humans too...
Climate: we have hot summers and cold winters. I kinda have my heart set on a sarplaninac for multiple reasons - they are similar to karst shepherd which I had, only a bit more intense, which is what I want. They are also from a place with a similar climate to our own so this is OK to. What I am not so sure is wether sarplaninac would protect from humans. Are they "patrol" guard dogs or not? (This is what bothered me with our previous LGD).
Apart from šarplaninac I was considering CO - tho I am not sure wether they would be an overkill. I want a very protective dog yet I want to be able to control it...Opinions?
I thinks the anatolians and kangals would not fare well in our winters with a lot of snow...so they are out...
Does anyone have any other suggestion re breed?
Just to recap:
- the livestock is sheep, goats and chicken;
- we have no very large predators,
- I want a dog that will protect from human stranges
- I want a dog that protects a large fenced property (3ha) - patroll
- it needs to accept our existing dog (not a threat to livestock)
- cold winters with lots of snow (down to - 20C) , hot summers (up to 30 C)
Do you think one dog would sufficiently protect the property? I would ideally like to have a pair...I was thinking of first getting a female and than keep a pup from her litter so that they would get along well....What do you think about this? Or would two males be better?
I want a dog with good protective instincts so I will be looking at working lines. Anyone know of good working dogs (of appropriate breeds) from Europe? (I live in Slovenia)
Thanks!
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Personally I would get a šarplaninac, check out http://www.sharplaninec.com/ .
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It seems to me that we need to look at this in order of your preferences.
1. Protect from humans and small predators: The Sarpalninac or even your current Karst (younger) would to the job. You did mention something that I thought was very interesting. You would consider the Caucasian Ovcharka but was afraid that it was overkill. I do hear that kink of thing often but if raised properly it is not necessarily true. I have three COs on 10 acres and you have 7 acres - that is plenty of space for two of them to protect and enjoy the life with the animals. For the most part they will lay under trees and watch the animals and not bother anyone - until they have to. I may be slightly biases here but if you are considering the CO you should pursue it. You are close enough to many great CO breeders so it should not be a problem finding a good working puppy. If you do decide to go with a Shar now and then add another dog later that is also a good move. The Shar is close to the Karst in behavior and size. If you wanted to increase the protection you seek - then go with the CO.
2. Patrols the property: Most goog LGD will patrol once their boundaries are defined - your fenceline will have a worn path. My COs will patrol along the fenceline in the mornings and evenings and then find a high spot from which to watch everything. They alert easily and that enough may be sufficient to ward off any strangers.
3. Cold winters and "hot" summers: Any of the double coated LGD breeds are versatile enough to endure these climactic conditons.
4. Needs to accept an existing dog: Any of the LGDs if introduces as a puppy to your other dog will be fine until they grow up and establish dominance.
If you can, you should get a pair (male and female) of the same breed but of different bloodlines. You will have to bonded dogs to double your proctection.
Bottomline - I say get the Caucasian Ovcharka.
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I would go with a nice male and female Beauceron. They can do it all heard, patrol, protect, etc. A good male will get to 110lbs and female about 90lbs.
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Thank you for all your replies!
Hm...now I have two favorites (again) and not an easy decision...
GSICARD - so in your experience CO are not an overkill? I must admit that I like them but I have yet to see one in a situation other than on a dog show (and show dogs are not always the best for working), and even there I have not seen many of them. But I have heard from many that they can be short tempered (and that some lines - military - have also been known to turn on their handler). I do want a protective dog, but it does have to be OK with MY family....I know that this should be true for all the LGDs, but ....
So if I do decide on the CO - would you recomend the "aboriginal" type? Like these breeders from Russia? (http://www.tibul.ru/ ; http://pyat-gor.narod.ru/ ) or do you have a kennel you could recomend me? (known for work tho if it looks pretty I don't mind :) ). I can get a dog from Russia or anywhere in Europe.
Still thinking about the šar tho...I don't want another Karst shepherd as unfortunately, I don't believe they are what they have been...None of the dogs bred today are like my late dog...But Šars I like.
Do you perhaps know where to get a good representative (for LGD) of the sharplaninatz?
Hm...I like both breeds so much....I would like to find good breeders of both breeds and than I think it would be easier to decide...
Help please :)
If I understand correctly - you suggest to get two unrelated dogs both as puppies at the same time? Or wait for the one to grow a bit? I am thinking two dogs but when they are around 8 or 9, get younger ones (and keep the eldery of course :) )
thanks
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Hi!
Thanks Mastini :) - but these dogs are from USA, right? I was hoping for a breeder in Europe, since šarplaninac is originally from europe....
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Lol, good luck.
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Thank you for all your replies!
So if I do decide on the CO - would you recomend the "aboriginal" type? Like these breeders from Russia? (http://www.tibul.ru/ ; http://pyat-gor.narod.ru/ ) or do you have a kennel you could recomend me? (known for work tho if it looks pretty I don't mind :) ). I can get a dog from Russia or anywhere in Europe.
Do you perhaps know where to get a good representative (for LGD) of the sharplaninatz?
If I understand correctly - you suggest to get two unrelated dogs both as puppies at the same time? Or wait for the one to grow a bit? I am thinking two dogs but when they are around 8 or 9, get younger ones (and keep the eldery of course :) )
The term aboriginal is vastly overused these days. Some thinks it is the rustic - non-show type look, some thinks it is the hard temperament of the working dogs of old. The best thought is that it is a combination of both to present a balanced functional dog. So, the key is to do some research and find the dog from the line or function that suits your need. I do have a couple breeders that I will recommend. Consider breeders in Serbia and the Ukraine.
For the Shar - you can find very solid representatives of the breed that would suit your needs very well. Look also to Serbia, Croatia - and Italy. I do know and can recommend some breeders.
The CO is not typically as presented and will to the best of my knowledge not turn on their owners. I have not heard of a case like that. They do require some firm handling during development to ensure they know their place in the pack. We have many discussions about their temperament and development in the forum so you should find some nice reading there.
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Hi paw-paw,
Where are you from?
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Hi, Thanks!
Can you perhaps suggest any breeders in those regions Gsicard (of both breeds)? (I have researched some but I have not (yet) came across a breeder claiming to use the dogs as LGD (only that the breed is used for LGD - but I want a speciment that will guard, cause for example I know that every breeder of Karst shepherd has written how this dogs are LGD and good guard dogs yet I have come to know to many cowardly Karst shepherd from breeders like that!)You can also PM if you do not wish to write the names in the public forum?
Desiree - I am from SLovenia (country bordering Italy, Austria, Hungary and Croatia :) ). But as I have said - I am willing to get a puppy from Europe (šarplaninac, CO) or even Russia (CO). But it would be a bit funny to import a european or russian breed from the USA to EU...I know what is needed to import a dog from serbia (and other balkan countries as well as from Russia - it can all be done, I have checked). As said - the main thing is temperament, looks come second.
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I think you can find a good breeder in slovenia, hongaria, italy and even in croatie.
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Hi Paw-Paw, i'm from Itlay and i know a very good dog breeder of aboriginal Caucasian, in Toscana, i give you the link of facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/elfiv.gorode/photos_albums
Try to contact her and explain your situation, she will be glad to give his dogs to those who really need.
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@ CANISDIRUS
Interesting link, i'd like to see more of those specimens, they look like working dogs. Can u provide a direct link please?
Ciao
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Hi Mariorossi, i'm italian too, i continue to write in english for all...
I have only this link of facebook, she have the Caucas dog from Kazbegi (Georgia), is kennel is Agul Dakh in Castellaccio, province of Livorno.
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@ CANISDIRUS
Thank u so much. I'll give it a sight :)
