Cesar Millan -- The Dog Whisperer: Yay? or Nay? and Why?

Im sure his is one of many methods that would work on a neo. Basicly he is treating a dog like a dog and not like a person. You have to be the boss in Cesar's ideal.

There are a few threads on Cesar in the forum already. There were some good discussions, look them up and see if you can find the answers/insights you're looking for.

The basics are there. Yes it is a good place to start. Beyond obtaining dominance though- a neo needs more OB than that.

Hi Pam :D Ceasar for all that he is or isn't just uses steady control, and a firm hand, with lots of exercise...and ofcourse to treat the dog as a dog...... Whatever you use be consistant and don't waiver with the house rules, or you'll confuse the dog. It's a dog and will never feel as a human and they go by different rules then we do...SO you have to train them to understand what you as the owner expects.....See you on [url=http://neoowners.com]Neo owners[/url] -Jessica

I actually like his shows a lot. New and inexperienced owners think of dogs as humans and Ceasar makes it a point that this is not the case. A lot of the times what he says makes sense to some of us that have been in the game for a long time, but I believe that his approach is very valuable to the average dog owner. His dogs are not professionally trained, but sure as hell seem balanced. He always makes a distinction between training and what he does. And this should not be forgotten. I particularly like the episde with Pattie Labelle's South African Boerboel. An amazing looking animal and Ceasar handled him very well. That's when I went out and bought his DVD's. Best, ALV

First off one reason why his dogs all get along is...EXERCISE!!! A tired dog is a happy dog :D And has no use for the others...you really never even see his dogs play do you? It's because he exercises the crap out of his dogs! Which is huge. But on the Neo' note....depends on the dog and on you. How much you work with them from day one, the toy breed you have submit's, and you watch your neo' with a keen eye ALWAYS. I honestly wouldn't, but I have two cat's in house as well as birds. I never let the birds out of the cage while the Neo's are in the room, because I've been there done that and have had to bury a beloved parrot from my dog eating it's head :cry: AND I've chased my dogs down while they are trying to eat cats......so....How is the little dogs disposition? I know of a breeder who has Neo's and toy breed's in house, haven't heard anything as of yet to happen.....But it can happen so fast and when it's done there is NOTHING you can do to bring it back. If you want to have both in house I totally understand (Being that I crave a littl' one as well) But I would never leave them unattended EVER.

Because The Dog Whisperer is a television show it employs relatively simple problems and relatively simple answers. Have a biting Chi? Put it down and tell it to stop! Have a hyper dog? Take it for a walk! The premise of the show make is necessary for Caesar to look like a wonder worker. Don't expect to see very serious problems that take long term solutions. Don't get me wrong; I like the way Caesar encourages dogs to be dogs, but sometimes he gets a little new-agey. In addition, I sometimes feel like people think that that 'shhhhh' noise is the reason the dogs behave. If I hear one more person doing that.... :x . When my dogs misbehave I say, "What the heck do you think you're doing?" and they understand perfectly. It's the tone. I also like Victoria Stillwell (It's Me or the Dog). She seems to be a bit more plain spoken. The dominatrix outfit's a bit silly (a producer stunt, of course) but she definitely has some solid ideas about dog training. I like the way she addresses the owners directly, saying, "This is your problem. You did this and you have to fix it."

[quote="Mei-Mei"]Because The Dog Whisperer is a television show it employs relatively simple problems and relatively simple answers. Have a biting Chi? Put it down and tell it to stop! Have a hyper dog? Take it for a walk! The premise of the show make is necessary for Caesar to look like a wonder worker. Don't expect to see very serious problems that take long term solutions. Don't get me wrong; I like the way Caesar encourages dogs to be dogs, but sometimes he gets a little new-agey. In addition, I sometimes feel like people think that that 'shhhhh' noise is the reason the dogs behave. If I hear one more person doing that.... :x . When my dogs misbehave I say, "What the heck do you think you're doing?" and they understand perfectly. It's the tone. I also like Victoria Stillwell (It's Me or the Dog). She seems to be a bit more plain spoken. The dominatrix outfit's a bit silly (a producer stunt, of course) but she definitely has some solid ideas about dog training. I like the way she addresses the owners directly, saying, "This is your problem. You did this and you have to fix it."[/quote] I'll second that about V. Stillwell. Her show "It's Me or The Dog" shows more nuts and bolts training. The Dog Whisperer goes more into CM's training philiosophy while "It's Me or The Dog" shows more of the actual training methodology. I enjoy both shows. However, I see "It's Me or The Dog" as providing more training tips.

I finally got video on demand and have watched several of the Cesar Milan short videos. Honestly, I am astonished and appalled that they put his show on TV. Everything that I've read and heard about him is certainly true. In my opinion Cesar is by no means rehabilitating dogs as he claims. He trains by force, abuse, punishment, fear, and intimidation. He is also still espousing the alpha dominance theory which has largely been debunked by dog trainers and wolf biologists that finally understand that the aggressive and domineering behavior of captive wolves which is what the alpha dominance training theory is based on is not replicated in the wild. My recommendation is that you google two dog trainers and read their web blogs and training articles. These two guys are Lee Charles Kelley and Sam Malatesta. They both train using the similar philosophy that you need to harness the dogs energy and drives to reduce their internal anxiety and get him to focus his attention on you. Neither of them are clicker or positive reinforcement trainers or dominance theory trainers. Just read what they have to say. Just a couple of other points of view. Again they are similar in their methods but not the same.

Cesar is a business and businesses must show results to stay in business. He is also on TV and the do edit the shows...think about that. Most of us with experience can take a leash and get resiults from undisplined dogs by appling basic handling and because we are NOT the owner that has enabled the situtation in the 1st place. There are two ideas behind training positive & negitive. Most training programs involve both of these ideas to varing degrees. I want my dogs to follow instuction because they want to work for me vs. work in fear of me.

[quote=Presadam]New2neos, In the book " Ceasar's way" they detail his daily excercise regimen. When Ceasar goes out on calls, he also has staff that has been trained to work with the dogs.[/quote] Yes....They work the crap out of his dogs.....miles a day EVERY day! Alot of times on skates... I agree also about "It's me or the dog" Another trainer with some good ideas....I feel that you need to find what YOU are able to do...stick with it and don't waiver from the rules...Plus don't Forget animals don't like being left in yard or house...THEY NEED to get off the property...people who just leave the dogs home all day and night are just plain crazy in my book....AND they are the one's always asking why the dog is a ball of energy...Gee because they are so bored they are climbing up the walls of your house....or to them more like prison.

Pam, If you spend some time around trainers that almost exclusively use punishment like Cesar and watch the reactions of the dogs vs. other trainers that work with more positive methods you will immediately begin to see the difference in the dogs. Dogs that work with Cesar show anxiety, distrust and fear worrying about what punishment they receive and they wonder why the heck it's happening to them. Dogs worked with positive methods show enthusiasm and have tremendous focus on their trainers. Cesar immediately goes to and is eliciting the desired behavior of the dog through force and punishment without first trying combinations of positive methods. some will call what Cesar does a correction. A correction should only be used on a dog once it understands what the behavior is that is being asked of it and does not perform the behavior or more specifically it it becomes distracted and loses focus on you. With Cesar's methods a dog pulls on a leash and wham he jerks it to get it to stop pulling. Regardless of whether he is pulling to the side or back it is still force and punishment. A dog pulls on a leash because it is more interested in it's surroundings than it is in you. Your job is to get the dog to want to pay more attention to you than to anything else around it. It should learn to do that in a happy playful positive manner that reduces anxiety, fear and stress such as having the opportunity to play tug of war, chase a frisbee, get a belly rub, receive a treat. Think about yourself would you rather pay attention to somebody because they give you money or because they put a rope around your neck and jerk it and choke you. Who would you respond to more enthusiastically? I can take a dog that pulls on a lead, put a buckle collar on it and put it on a fifteen foot lead, use a tug toy, treats or frisbee and have it heeling at my side looking at me much more happily and much more quickly and more consistently than somebody who is going to immediately go directly to haltis, pinch collars, shock collars, choke collars or do as Cesar does and place the collar so high on the dog's neck that it causes the dog to not pull because of the extreme discomfort and pain from the force that is being placed on his trachea and wind pipe. There is definitely a place for some of the training tools I've mentioned as being tools of punishment but those are limited circumstances for specific behavioral reasons and should be used by people who know what they are doing. Bottom line is in my opinion that Cesar Milan is nothing more than an animal abuser and torturer.

Gary for clarification purposes you and I have spoken about Sam Malatesta before. He is not the same guy as Sam the Dog Trainer. Sam Malatesta is from Toronto, Canada and I've known him for years and have worked at some of his weekend training camps with him. The Sam I know has a web site at www.whosthedog.net

Yes & Yes I believe one must have balance in training between reward & consequence . I don't get Ceasar's "Zen" as he ignore the Ying/Yang :wink:

there is nothing mean , cruel , fear provoking or abusive about cesars way. it is about bonding , while setting rules and limitations, not punihment, he never punishes a dog , and positive reinforcement is the way the dog gets it a nd relaxes in turn. cesars way lets on the idea of understanding the dogs state of mind and act as a leader to limit or block unwanted behavior , and to reward good behavior. training a dog is conditioning it to do a behavior, not to give it leadership. you can train a dog to sit , lay, fetch and roll over , and give it cookies , and all you have done is become its bitch, then you try a walk and it drags you down while chasing a dog, lmao. cesars way is the way, its not a tip , its a philosophy. vicoria stillwell is good too, and she uses the same instinctual tactics, but she doesnt teach it as well, maybe its just the people she works with , she knows wont get it, lol.

Rubbish.

[quote=Wolf]Rubbish.[/quote] :lol: :lol: :lol: But, you have to give him points for being consistent :wink:

you either cant compehind , or you are hating because you know im right, or cesars right. but excuse me , you make your living rehabing severe cases of agressive dogs to phobic, or spoiled lap dogs. you know what works, i bet your dogs are a heap of dysplastic lard, with tempermental termermant, lol, you just dont get it, first you have to try then you understand.

:lol: Ok dude, you keep telling yourself that. Be sure to let me know how well Cesar's "TSST!" correction works on an aggressive CO. ;)

[quote=Platz"][quote="Wolf]Rubbish.[/quote] :lol: :lol: :lol: But, you have to give him points for being consistent :wink:[/quote] Consistent as in always annoying, embarrassingly illiterate and predictably wrong? Yes.