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Butch PP Training

Were that my dog I'd find another decoy and training club. He looks like a young well balanced pup responding very well in "prey" drive and you want to get him to somebody who knows what they are doing and can work the dog properly. In other words, nice dog, not good decoy. Go on the LEERBURG web site and watch some of the Michael Ellis videos clips. A trainer like Michael or one who has worked with him is who I would look for.
Replies (34)
  • This is my boy Butch in personal protection, I just wanted to get others opinion on his potential. CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is welcome. THANKS TO ALL that offer advise/help or opinion. It's kinda long but hopefully you'll watch it through, ENJOY. [youtube]iFRFn0k2aks[/youtube] Alan - like I explained in the pm use this code [code] [youtube]iFRFn0k2aks[/youtube][/code]
    • MAYBE, this one will work. Is it that I CAN'T see my own video?
      • Thanks old english. NOW, how did you do it, HELP LOL.
        • nice video i love when he turns on he shows no remorse and hits very hard... he so calm until u give him those words i respect that unlike the psycho dog next to him that was going after everything
          • Were that my dog I'd find another decoy and training club. He looks like a young well balanced pup responding very well in "prey" drive and you want to get him to somebody who knows what they are doing and can work the dog properly. In other words, nice dog, not good decoy. Go on the LEERBURG web site and watch some of the Michael Ellis videos clips. A trainer like Michael or one who has worked with him is who I would look for.
            • first of all you have a really nice and cute dog. i have seen the other videos too. so he likes peanut butter. :) my cat likes sweet stuff too. again your dog is cool, but about the training i have some doubts. for example this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaUYeqxY7NI&feature=related what is the point in grabbing the leg of your dog in 1:41 and then hitting his chest?
              • I thank all that have responded so far I did think my boy was doing pretty good. A question, a few have said not a good decoy; what, in your opinionS makes for a good decoy? I'm just curious, as a newbie I don't know what to look for. I also had another video but I couldn't upload it, it actually was the first one and it was 7 minutes. Pug-Brit AK I think the grabbing of the leg and beating was testing his resolve, I GUESS, LOL.
                • [quote1315355662=PUGNACES-BRITANNIAE-AK] first of all you have a really nice and cute dog. i have seen the other videos too. so he likes peanut butter. :) my cat likes sweet stuff too. again your dog is cool, but about the training i have some doubts. for example this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaUYeqxY7NI&feature=related what is the point in grabbing the leg of your dog in 1:41 and then hitting his chest? [/quote1315355662] Thanks for watching the other videos, don't be afraid to comment I look forward to people's opinions as long as they're respectful. Did you see the 7 minute clip? That was the first video that I tried to upload, it's on here SOMEWHERE, LOL. That video takes place outdoors.
                  • [quote1315355873=acamper] Pug-Brit AK I think the grabbing of the leg and beating was testing his resolve, I GUESS, LOL. [/quote1315355873] i also thought he wanted to test his determination. however i think building up confidence is the main key.
                    • Tiger12490 and budelhymer I appreciate your responses that young man is actually just a helper, I SUPPOSE. I actually thought you saw the shorter video that Pug-Brit AK put up. If you'll take a look at that one I THINK he's a better decoy, as I said though, I'm a newbie and don't know what to look for. Thanks again for your input I REALLY appreciate it.
                      • [quote1315357377=PUGNACES-BRITANNIAE-AK] [quote1315355873=acamper] Pug-Brit AK I think the grabbing of the leg and beating was testing his resolve, I GUESS, LOL. [/quote1315355873] i also thought he wanted to test his determination. however i think building up confidence is the main key. [/quote1315357377] I like that he kept trying to get at him. As I said I THOUGHT I had a good boy just wasn't sure. He's seriously into OB as well because once he's turned on it's HARD to turn him off so I NEED that control.
                        • Alan, all you need to do is put the youtube VIDEO ID in the youtube tags. basically.. just copy the youtube id for your video - for example this one: iFRFn0k2aks paste it in, select it and click the little youtube icon in the reply box. The code should look like this: [code][youtube]iFRFn0k2aks[/youtube][/code] and you will see this [youtube]iFRFn0k2aks[/youtube]
                          • [quote1315360455=acamper] MAYBE, this one will work. Is it that I CAN'T see my own video? [/quote1315360455] nope - your are posting an iframe which is not allowed because iframes pose some security risk and they are used for hacking. All you have to do it put the video id zaUYeqxY7NI between the youtube tags. See previous post. [youtube]zaUYeqxY7NI[/youtube]
                            • Thanks a LOT Gary, I REALLY thought I did it right. I went to youtube copied and pasted and when I went to preview it showed but then when I went to the thread it was nowhere to be found. I'm REALLY computer ILLITERATE.
                              • Okay, I ACTUALLY THINK I have it but I'm waiting for a different video to upload to youtube so I can post it here.
                                • just remember not to post all the crap from youtube .. just the video id code which is between the "=" and the "&" sign in youtube url when the video is playing.
                                  • [youtube]youtu.be/P1cTDD6rD24[youtube] I THINK I got it. This Butch's AND my FIRST attempt at protection training, I believe it'll be OBVIOUSLY noticeable, LOL.
                                    • Guess not D@MN
                                      • [youtube]P1cTDD6rD24[/youtube] FIRST PP Class for BOTH of us!
                                        • I FINALLY GOT IT, yippEE
                                          • Are these your first sessions? I am not a fan of the technique the decoys are using. That is also some interesting line agitation, far too close together for my liking (for molossers). As a handler, best thing to do is have both hands on the leash. Get yourself a nice 6 foot leather, and a correction collar on some sort of tab. Looping your hand in the leash is a death sentence. You are trapping you and your dog if something happens. Get in the habit of two hands, loop in the right, with the loop around your thumb and across your palm with your fingers grasping it. This makes a lock, while allowing you to totally release the leash in a hurry if need be, as there is no way you can physically pull your thumb through your palm. Your left hand guides, lets out or reels in, and corrects the dog. If you get a correction collar on a separate tab, you can "out" your dog, reinforce it, and mean it on the first try, not cranking his neck around with the flat a few dozen times. Agitation and bite work is rough enough on the cervical vertebrae, don't make it worse... Here is a video about proper leash technique as I have described. This is for OB, but the right hand lock technique is the same. http://vimeo.com/179230 Your stance is good, feet wide apart, bent at the knees, with your left leading. Stay upright, do not bend at the waist, this gives the advantage to the dog and destroys the back. If you need more power, lean into your back bracing leg, in almost a sit. Pivot on you weight baring leg, and point with your lead leg. You can and should be able to complete a 360 spin in this position if you ever need to direct or follow your dog once alerted. If you place your right hand on your hip, this gives you added support. By "sitting" and pushing down with the right hand, you can control most beasts. Here is a member, showing good form and holding a dog that outweighs her by quite a bit. This technique will provide you with superior control of your dog. The only thing I need to address in this photo is that she could have more weight on her back foot (she is moving in this photo also), but considering this dog has over 50+ pounds on her, she does a great job.
                                            • Thank you igmuska, I've gotten better, LOL.
                                              • Hi Alan, it seems that once your dog has the stick or sleeve it is quite happy. Could be because it is new at the "game". Check out this video. Look closely at the end of the video and say what you think. [youtube]gjXIoCIAVQI[/youtube]
                                                • i love this video, terrible decoy
                                                  • I can only critique the obedience part since that's all I know but it seems that you need to build a stronger foundation on that part. Maybe in pp your dog should be allowed to go buck wild and not listen to you but take it's own direction. I felt like the dog wanted to get to the other dogs first and then at the decoy. I am assuming that when you are agitating you let the dog pull to build tension in order to get it to want to hit the decoy. I am just concerned that your dog will go after anything and ignore you. Maybe I'm wrong and but this is a great thread for me to learn about this. Have you taught your dog to out before ?
                                                    • Control and OB are very different when a dog is in this state. This is part of the reason why you "practice." You can have the best OB dog in the world, but when learning bite work most goes out the window, lol. All has to be relearned, and little transfers.
                                                      • [quote1315514095=Igmuska] Control and OB are very different when a dog is in this state. This is part of the reason why you "practice." You can have the best OB dog in the world, but when learning bite work most goes out the window, lol. All has to be relearned, and little transfers. [/quote1315514095] Thank you Betsy :)
                                                        • First I want to thank everyone for their comments and input then I'll respond to each individually
                                                          • [quote1315516133=gsicard] Hi Alan, it seems that once your dog has the stick or sleeve it is quite happy. Could be because it is new at the "game". Check out this video. Look closely at the end of the video and say what you think. [youtube]gjXIoCIAVQI[/youtube] [/quote1315516133] Gary, I HAVE seen that video before of the Ovtcharka (sp?), thanks. At the end he says F*CK the pad and went for the man/decoy. I THINK I get the hint so I want to share a story. I have tested, well not myself but a friend that I have known for over 20 years tested my dog. We were at his cookout and I told him that Butch, my AB, was in PP class and he wanted to see it. I warned him that it wasn't the best idea but he's had dogs for MANY years and thinks he's an expert so he said he was under control. Now granted he was intoxicated, I KNOW, but he wanted to test him so he starts to rile my dog up so I give him the watch command and IMMEDIATELY Butch gets prepared. So, my buddy reaches and gets him going and I'm pretty sure he forgot that dogs are QUICK and Butch nails him he then asks me if he has his shots and I tell him of course he should know that I'm up on what I'm supposed to do. The next day he gets a Tetanus (sp?) shot, LOL. Long story short, Butch is NOT pad fixated he'll BITE.
                                                            • [quote1315516874=davidfitness83] I can only critique the obedience part since that's all I know but it seems that you need to build a stronger foundation on that part. Maybe in pp your dog should be allowed to go buck wild and not listen to you but take it's own direction. I felt like the dog wanted to get to the other dogs first and then at the decoy. I am assuming that when you are agitating you let the dog pull to build tension in order to get it to want to hit the decoy. I am just concerned that your dog will go after anything and ignore you. Maybe I'm wrong and but this is a great thread for me to learn about this. Have you taught your dog to out before ? [/quote1315516874] David? This particular video was Butch's FIRST session as well as myself, go back to the beginning and take a look at the first 2 videos that I uploaded OR ATTEMPTED to upload, LOL. Butch is farther along in those and he actually has MUCH better control. I only uploaded THIS video because I was trying to get it right and figured it would be cool to look at the dogs AND MY progress. He also has gone through and continues to go through OB. He has learned drop it and leave it but once HE gets going he's hard to get back where we want so they've been working on his control also.
                                                              • [quote1315517226=Igmuska] Are these your first sessions? I am not a fan of the technique the decoys are using. That is also some interesting line agitation, far too close together for my liking (for molossers). As a handler, best thing to do is have both hands on the leash. Get yourself a nice 6 foot leather, and a correction collar on some sort of tab. Looping your hand in the leash is a death sentence. You are trapping you and your dog if something happens. Get in the habit of two hands, loop in the right, with the loop around your thumb and across your palm with your fingers grasping it. This makes a lock, while allowing you to totally release the leash in a hurry if need be, as there is no way you can physically pull your thumb through your palm. Your left hand guides, lets out or reels in, and corrects the dog. If you get a correction collar on a separate tab, you can "out" your dog, reinforce it, and mean it on the first try, not cranking his neck around with the flat a few dozen times. Agitation and bite work is rough enough on the cervical vertebrae, don't make it worse... Here is a video about proper leash technique as I have described. This is for OB, but the right hand lock technique is the same. http://vimeo.com/179230 Your stance is good, feet wide apart, bent at the knees, with your left leading. Stay upright, do not bend at the waist, this gives the advantage to the dog and destroys the back. If you need more power, lean into your back bracing leg, in almost a sit. Pivot on you weight baring leg, and point with your lead leg. You can and should be able to complete a 360 spin in this position if you ever need to direct or follow your dog once alerted. If you place your right hand on your hip, this gives you added support. By "sitting" and pushing down with the right hand, you can control most beasts. Here is a member, showing good form and holding a dog that outweighs her by quite a bit. This technique will provide you with superior control of your dog. The only thing I need to address in this photo is that she could have more weight on her back foot (she is moving in this photo also), but considering this dog has over 50+ pounds on her, she does a great job. [/quote1315517226] Igmuska, BETSY? Yes THIS last video is actually his VERY first session as well as my own. If you'll notice in the beginning they were actually trying to tell me about the lean back. As far as the leash they use a flat with a short leash BEFORE they go to the 6 foot then the 30. I have another story, (KINDA BRAGGING). My boy hasn't had many sessions but he's shown that he has the will. There was a gentleman in the class ACTUALLY the advanced class that asked if he could try his dog for the first time on a 30 foot send. The trainers explained that not every dog will go without that close connection to their owner and his dog did not, a Bandog. So, the trainers explained further that you may have to start running with your dog to get him going, well the owner of the Bandog did this and the dog still stopped short. One of the trainers told me to bring my boy and send him to show the Bandog owner up and he went each time, 3 times. I also have video of that but I'm afraid to put it up because I KNOW I screwed up, LOL. With all that being said, I'm a beginner, my dog as well to a certain extent but he's not afraid. I was just hoping for some comfirmation from MD that I had a pretty good boy and all for the most part have said good dog poor decoys. I'm still hoping someone can tell me a LITTLE about what makes a good or bad decoy because I don't know what to look for. Thank you again
                                                                • Thanks for the link to holding the leash by the way
                                                                  • [quote1315838505=acamper] [quote1315516133=gsicard] Hi Alan, it seems that once your dog has the stick or sleeve it is quite happy. Could be because it is new at the "game". Check out this video. Look closely at the end of the video and say what you think. [youtube]gjXIoCIAVQI[/youtube] [/quote1315516133] Gary, I HAVE seen that video before of the Ovtcharka (sp?), thanks. At the end he says F*CK the pad and went for the man/decoy. I THINK I get the hint so I want to share a story. I have tested, well not myself but a friend that I have known for over 20 years tested my dog. We were at his cookout and I told him that Butch, my AB, was in PP class and he wanted to see it. I warned him that it wasn't the best idea but he's had dogs for MANY years and thinks he's an expert so he said he was under control. Now granted he was intoxicated, I KNOW, but he wanted to test him so he starts to rile my dog up so I give him the watch command and IMMEDIATELY Butch gets prepared. So, my buddy reaches and gets him going and I'm pretty sure he forgot that dogs are QUICK and Butch nails him he then asks me if he has his shots and I tell him of course he should know that I'm up on what I'm supposed to do. The next day he gets a Tetanus (sp?) shot, LOL. Long story short, Butch is NOT pad fixated he'll BITE. [/quote1315838505] Hi Alan, Good for your Butch for been able to use its teeth if need be. Just make sure you keep it that way. I seen lots of good protection dogs get destroyed with a "sleeve" and socialization with plenty agitatrors. Do not get me wrong but i would get considered if my dog focus too much on the pad. I think same think Gary tried to tell you. Regards
                                                                    • Thanks dkoriss I actually have ANOTHER story, LOL. Just this PAST Saturday Butch's leash somehow came loose while the decoy was teasing someone else with NO sleeve and Butch went after him LUCKILY the decoy had a stick, stuck it into Butch's mouth and I IMMEDIATELY went and grabbed Butch, ended HIS session and preceded to work on Butch's control no more teasing just MY correcting.
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