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Caucasian ovcharka/volka

 

I understand a CO is an independent thinker thats something I admire but if the dog as it matures starts to display undesirable behaviour i think a e collar if used correctly and only when absolutely necessary could be a great aid with a dog that is so large because from the ones i have seen i do not think many people would be able to restrain one with a collar and leash if the dog suddenly decides to do something that the handler thinks is undesirable.

 If the handler cannot control the dog with a collar and leash then an e-collar would be useless and a waste of time and money.  ecollar is one device to help the owner in correcting some behavior of the dog.  Shock collar usage is something the must be trained properly and its use judiciously applied. Used too many times the dog will ignore and take the pain.

So, do some training with a collar and lead when you get your dog and then as it grows up you can substitute the physical leash for the remote one - that must be trained just like you had a physical leash.

All this means nothing if the dog decides that something is a threat and must be engaged. The ecollar will not stop it probably just makes it more angry.

If you train properly with the ecollar it can be a good aide but total control, in my opinion, will not be achieved.  Heck, sometimes it is difficult to control a properly trained one with a leash.

Desiree has had success with her's but most people do not put in the amount of time/training with their dogs that she does.

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Replies (17)
  • Hi to everyone i have enjoyed reading many articles on this forum its great.

    I have a question that i would like to ask.

    Will a Caucasian Ovcharka(co) respond to a e collar?I ask as I am seriously interested in buying a caucasian and have spent a number of years researching the breed and i have always had working line GSD's.

    I understand a CO is an independent thinker thats something I admire but if the dog as it matures starts to display undesirable behaviour i think a e collar if used correctly and only when absolutely necessary could be a great aid with a dog that is so large because from the ones i have seen i do not think many people would be able to restrain one with a collar and leash if the dog suddenly decides to do something that the handler thinks is undesirable.

    I read that on the recent volka 12,14, month post someone who has a co is using an e collar with great results i just wondered if other CO owners have used them?

    Thanks in advance for any help give, it is much appreciated.

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    • yes desiree is the one with a CO using an E collar...My Volka is a CAO and thinking of getting an E collar because  he is a bit hard to  control once he is off leash. but desiree is the one with e collar experience with CO's

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      • I started with the e-collar when he was almost two years old. I wouldnt train the co pup with an e-collar.

        By the way i trained GSD for years but no doubt in my mind that the co is totally diffrent.

        the normal training doesnt work for the co.

        It can really frustrating for you if you are used to a dog that respond immediatly.

        Also dont underestimate the power of the co, the power of a gsd is nothing by the power of a co.

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        •  

          I understand a CO is an independent thinker thats something I admire but if the dog as it matures starts to display undesirable behaviour i think a e collar if used correctly and only when absolutely necessary could be a great aid with a dog that is so large because from the ones i have seen i do not think many people would be able to restrain one with a collar and leash if the dog suddenly decides to do something that the handler thinks is undesirable.

           If the handler cannot control the dog with a collar and leash then an e-collar would be useless and a waste of time and money.  ecollar is one device to help the owner in correcting some behavior of the dog.  Shock collar usage is something the must be trained properly and its use judiciously applied. Used too many times the dog will ignore and take the pain.

          So, do some training with a collar and lead when you get your dog and then as it grows up you can substitute the physical leash for the remote one - that must be trained just like you had a physical leash.

          All this means nothing if the dog decides that something is a threat and must be engaged. The ecollar will not stop it probably just makes it more angry.

          If you train properly with the ecollar it can be a good aide but total control, in my opinion, will not be achieved.  Heck, sometimes it is difficult to control a properly trained one with a leash.

          Desiree has had success with her's but most people do not put in the amount of time/training with their dogs that she does.

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          • Used too many times the dog will ignore and take the pain.

            So treu.

            And thank you Gary for your compliment!

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            • i think what have been said makes a lot of sense.. you should train your dog first without ecollar and leave the ecollar for tater as a refinement tool..not to be used excessively.

              desiree i cant believe how fast Volka runs i am not used to CO and CAO but today i took him out in the mountain and let him go he was running wild very happy . he got pretty far from me. so i hid and started calling him so i guess he got worried so he ran to me like a freight train ..despite his weight he just crossed about 800feet of rough terrain in few seconds!  and yes the power of such dogs is another dimension compared to a GSD

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              • Hi Yes i concur sorry if i was unclear, I did not mean that i would use an e collar to substitute the standard analogue classical training/bonding with the puppy/dog. I have used e collars for over 10 years and have seen many people use them totally incorrectly, the dog must first be educated/trained and fully understand what is expected. Even this is not enough to use the e collar effectively, for me then the dog must learn what the e collar being used for is about and that its not just a severe correction because as many have said eventually the dog just becomes conditioned to it. I would also not even entertain using an e collar till the dog was at least 18 months old.

                Thanks for all the replies this is a great forum.

                I have always had GSD'S and find the way they bond with you an exceptional experience almost primeval, yet i have heard a CO is even greater in respect to the way they bond and integrate with their family. I hope to one day experience this legendary bond when I own a CO.

                I know its a little off topic but relating to a CO once again, if the dog when reaching adolescence (18month-2 years) starts to show very dominant behaviour and challenges the pack leader/alpha owner what would be the best port of call in terms of training? With all the gsd's i have had i simply made them adhere to commands like down/sit/stay but i understand with a CO they do not do obedience quite like a GSD and also can be very stubborn, so what would be the method one should use?

                I read that some just turn their back on the CO and because the nature of the Co is such that if cannot have interaction with its owner its is very upset and this is enough to make the dog conform but i have never heard or seen a dog to respond to this, i am not saying i dont believe because it as i said i have no experience with the breed.

                Desiree can i also ask which variety of e collar you use with your CO. I have used a Dogtra 200 for over 10 years. I find it very good.

                Thanks in advance for any help and thanks again for all the replies.

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                •  know its a little off topic but relating to a CO once again, if the dog when reaching adolescence (18month-2 years) starts to show very dominant behaviour and challenges the pack leader/alpha owner what would be the best port of call in terms of training?

                  It start not with 18 months it start day one in your home. Like that little cuty bear is standing/hanging against you.

                  Realy when you dont see the signs from day one in your home you will not  winn it.

                  I read that some just turn their back on the CO and because the nature of the Co is such that if cannot have interaction with its owner its is very upset and this is enough to make the dog conform but i have never heard or seen a dog to respond to this, i am not saying i dont believe because it as i said i have no experience with the breed.

                  Independant dog ! Do you realy think this BS? No way ! He will not be up set when you turn your back at him. Not even as a pup. He is gping discover the world and will be back when he wants to.

                  My pups, raised 3, when they wanted to look at another farm they go over and see, i waked the other way, hide myself well name it but really all three didnt care at all.

                  I use the dogtra 3500NCP,water resistent and 1.5 km

                  Gilles,

                  Yes they are fast, realy fast, the CO too. 

                  People underestimate them. They are faster than the GSD. 

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                  • hehe as desiree said they start showing challenging behavior since day 1. i had some issues with volka at 5 months then around 1 year , what worked for me is more obedience training, less petting for a while, take out toys only give toys or pet when he does something good, hand feeding..being very firm and calm.

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                    • hehe as desiree said they start showing challenging behavior since day 1. i had some issues with volka at 5 months then around 1 year , what worked for me is more obedience training, less petting for a while, take out toys only give toys or pet when he does something good, hand feeding..being very firm and calm.

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                      • Also what works great is claim your own space from day one without words.

                        Example. When he is hanging against you lift your knee or foot without saying something.

                        Also brushing every day for a short while so after a few days you can almost mop the floor with him. I can turn him every side that i want even drag him by the feet from the left to the right.

                        But it takes some time.

                        Also be careful when he doesnt understand he will start snapping biting, not because he wants to dominate No because he doesnt understand.

                        If you start rough you will loose it because he will be stronger than you. Play it fair and firm.

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                        • Thanks for all the posts and knowledge. Desiree when you say "when he is hanging from you" do you mean when he is jumping  or something else?

                          Thanks for all the replies its great knowledge you are all sharing its is much appreciated

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                          • No,i mean standing against you,Inar never jumps!

                            Example of the power of a co.

                            Inar bit me, he broke both bones in my under arm. Just one bite, he noticed that it was me so he did letgo immediatly. Thank god he noticed and didnt shake it.

                            I had to wear a cast for 4 months

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                            • Oh i see what you mean thanks, yes my shepherds tried to do the same leaning against me so i did a similar thing to establish my own space as i understood this as trying to possess me.

                              I am sorry to hear you were bitten i take it, it was a case of mistaken identity? 

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                              •  

                                No,i mean standing against you,Inar never jumps!

                                Example of the power of a co.

                                Inar bit me, he broke both bones in my under arm. Just one bite, he noticed that it was me so he did letgo immediatly. Thank god he noticed and didnt shake it.

                                I had to wear a cast for 4 months

                                 thats true i never could understand why volka does that he just comes and lean against me with all his weight. and yes brushing was a problem at first now  its ok no problem...cleaning his ears was also a bit of a problem not anymore. here is a story but it was not volka's fault..i was training him with a long leash and i threw a ball for him to fetch he just rushed to the ball, the leash was accidentally wrapped around my legs ..he just snapped me both legs out in the air and dragged me ,,i landed on my back and on my wrist..i had to put a cast on my wrist for a month..was a hairline fracture not serious but all the ligaments damaged.... that was when he was 8 months ..still hurts me up till now. as far as biting i got my share when he was resource guarding his bone but after that he was very sorry he acted on a reflex. 

                                but with lots of work he is now very very stable and never snaps or acts on a reflex with me. 

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                                • Yes, mistake.  During a fight with another dog. Long Long story.

                                  Funny, my first day on the beach with Inar.

                                  I was on the beach Inar walked upstairs, higest place, sit down and start guarding.

                                  Nobody couldnt get on or off the beach.

                                  They are very good guardians but you must be even better

                                  because

                                  you have to see all things around you, what heppens around you first.

                                  I am a great guard these days)))))

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                                  • I don't have a CO. But I have trained enough dogs of different temperaments.

                                    An e-collars is nothing more than a tool. It can be used. I would not wait until the dog was old before using the e-collar. Dogs of this temperament can and will ignore an e-collar, choke and or a prong collar. The purpose in using an e-collars should be to get the dog to respond to you no matter what the distraction maybe. This should be the focus no matter which tool you use for training. It is better to begin your training early and be consistent with the training, Then you will not see the unwanted behaviors that generally develop when there is an absence of guidance. I try to include every distraction that my dogs might see. We train in places were they will see a rabbit, snake,  or squirrel come out of nowhere. They must learn to ignore them and pay attention to me. If they have be released the rabbit is fair game. If they perceive something as a threat is will break command but must get back under control with my command. This takes a lot of time. It is a lot of work too. But like to think they enjoy it.

                                    With that being said a collar used to keep a dog on its property with underground fencing is useless on my dogs and I believe it would be useless on a CO. A lot of training can work. But if you wait until the dig has begun a bad habit of chasing prey and leaving your property then it would be almost impossible as the chase would be too rewarding for the dog to resist. But if the dog learns early in development that you are more rewarding than anything else the dog will respond to you over the prey.

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