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PP people and enthusiasts I need your opinions !

Yes it can. This is why you train. After the foundation work is done, later PP work is spent on control and everyday situation training. For instance, in the DSO, there are several scenarios where the draw is not the intended target or threat. One scenario is where you are heeling in a straight line, as a loud man waving a cane is upset because he has "lost his glasses." The person flails the stick screams loudly and makes a fuss. This is very enticing for a dog, but after a certain point to your side a mugger steps out, points a gun at your head and says quietly,"give me all of your money." The dog is convinced it knows who the threat is, when in fact it is a passive threat. Training such as this prepares a handler for these types of situations. The dog and handler communication and the wariness as well as the actions the handler take are integral to a good PP dog. It is work. These types or scenarios help to teach the handler how to deal with these situations as much as it teaches the dog the difference in the reaction of its owner when under threat or not. A naturally defensive dog may be intolerant of rough play from neighbor kids, or buddies rough housing. A trained dog may also react, but knows when to " stand down," at the owners request, but also can read the owner's intention and "feelings" about the actions taking place. Part of the training is to think about what you would do in such a situation. For instance, I get loud, defensive, and aggressive; so when training, I get loud, defensive and aggressive. Some in our group scream when "attacked." Others are more passive. It is a personal level of communication with your beast. :)
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Replies (11)
  • I have read through almost everything on this site and many others regarding PP and Protection Sport dogs and training. Now couple of questions come to mind. I am assuming when everyone talks about having a dog with the right temperament or nerves means that the dog will not go into attack mode or turn on if let's say someone in the family makes sudden movements which closely resemble those made by the decoys? I also see that a lot of decoys act aggressively towards the dog, yelling, screaming etc... if someone in the house was having an argument, or people near by, can this trigger the dog to go into attack mode? Now I know dogs are smart but they are creatures of habit, they like routines and get molded easily into behaviors. Am I wrong by thinking that similar non-threatening scenario such as those in trials or training can trigger a dog? I know obedience plays a huge role to deactivate a dog if it turned on by mistake but I just wonder if the dog has an off day? I know a few of you have told me that teaching a dog to bite or protect is the same as learning a martial art, I get that, I am just directing this more towards scenarios that we cannot control that could trigger a dog's switch. I hope I didn't embarrass my self with this question, but I am seriously looking into a guarding type breed for my new addition since I will most likely buy a house next year and I am doing all the homework I can to be sure I am doing the right thing.
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    • Yes it can. This is why you train. After the foundation work is done, later PP work is spent on control and everyday situation training. For instance, in the DSO, there are several scenarios where the draw is not the intended target or threat. One scenario is where you are heeling in a straight line, as a loud man waving a cane is upset because he has "lost his glasses." The person flails the stick screams loudly and makes a fuss. This is very enticing for a dog, but after a certain point to your side a mugger steps out, points a gun at your head and says quietly,"give me all of your money." The dog is convinced it knows who the threat is, when in fact it is a passive threat. Training such as this prepares a handler for these types of situations. The dog and handler communication and the wariness as well as the actions the handler take are integral to a good PP dog. It is work. These types or scenarios help to teach the handler how to deal with these situations as much as it teaches the dog the difference in the reaction of its owner when under threat or not. A naturally defensive dog may be intolerant of rough play from neighbor kids, or buddies rough housing. A trained dog may also react, but knows when to " stand down," at the owners request, but also can read the owner's intention and "feelings" about the actions taking place. Part of the training is to think about what you would do in such a situation. For instance, I get loud, defensive, and aggressive; so when training, I get loud, defensive and aggressive. Some in our group scream when "attacked." Others are more passive. It is a personal level of communication with your beast. :)
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      • I was hoping you would add your thoughts :) I think when it comes down to it, there are two important key factors to consider. A dog with the proper disposition from good breeding to start with and a very extensive curriculum with a experienced club that will guide you through the process right?
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        • The key to the training, is you. I learned it firsthand, get rid of your inhibitions and do what you have to because this is for your dog AND for your benefits in the long run. As Igmuska stated, do what you'd do in real life if attacked. She gets loud and defensive and aggressive, I don't. I get quiet and look for something to react to. When training my dog, I have to put on the show and do the whole 9(as well as someone who has 0 acting skill can) so the dogs realize it isn't a joke. I also have the "curse" of being a rather large individual, and have been told I am quite intimidating. My dogs also realize that and as much as we train, they don't really believe that I need the help in defending myself. Infact, in 1 scenario, I was instructed to quickly hurry away from my dog and "attack" the decoy, while simultaneously another decoy is working another dog straight across from us. My dog was then sent to come aid me, but chose to divide and conquer and went after the other decoy, I guess she felt for whatever reason she needed to be involved with the other dogs work(she was not keying in on or reacting to the other dog). It can be a real pain in the ass and a constant uphill battle. But, don't give up if at first, or even for a while, it seems your dog doesn't get it. Find a good trainer that you click with and stick it out. The dog will come around and you'll be pleased. Also, I'd like to add, the longer you're with a particular group, the ribbing will begin and become more common place. Don't take offense to cracks at you and your dog, and don't go out there with intentions to prove yourself or the dog to the masses. Do it because you and the dog enjoy it.
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          • Thanks for the feedback, my dog will not be put through this training. I don't think my dog has the confidence that is required. I think my dog is too soft and eventually the switch can be turned on but I don't think it will be a good idea. I am asking about this because I will be buying a home next year hopefully and I am looking to relocate to a more secluded area, I really dislike strangers and my wife and I love our solitude. THis means we will be in the middle of nowhere with less neighbors or people that can help us in case of an emergency. I am not solely relying on a dog to do the job, I am simply trying to get a breed that will be a very good deterrent and reliable. A few seconds can make a difference, and this is what I am trying to aim for. The more intimidating the dog, I think the less likely I will be a prospect for a robbery but who knows these days.
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            • Then a well bred well trained GSD is your best bet.
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              • I am actually considering the Alano Espanol I have made some very good contacts and I think I will be able to get a good specimen. I am not so sure about dealing with a rank driven GSD, I also do not like long hair because of the mess they make. Don't get me wrong I really like those dogs and I think they are a beauty but after much reading on their temperament I don't think that dog will be a fit in my family.
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                • Don't be embarrassed by asking questions, everyone starts some where. I feel I only know a page, in a very large book about these wonderful creatures. Imo~There is two parts to this. Because it also depends on the dog that you bring into your home. Because bringing say a highly reactive Gsd could act in every way that you are afraid of. Or with patience and Training (and lets not forget a good dog) you may have the best animal you have ever encountered. I find the more time I invest into an animal, the more it thrives. But...I'm also doing it right. The same dog could go to a bad trainer and turn out completely different. So where I'm going with this is...Get a good dog...Spend a LOT of time socializing while creating the proper attitude. Next step is, find a experienced trainer and sponge as much knowlegde you can! And on a side Note...I'm loud, wrestle with my hubby, he will throw me around while playing....And none of my dogs have ever reacted. :) We also have kids running around too!
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                  • [quote1314884648=babigirl] Don't be embarrassed by asking questions, everyone starts some where. I feel I only know a page, in a very large book about these wonderful creatures. Imo~There is two parts to this. Because it also depends on the dog that you bring into your home. Because bringing say a highly reactive Gsd could act in every way that you are afraid of. Or with patience and Training (and lets not forget a good dog) you may have the best animal you have ever encountered. I find the more time I invest into an animal, the more it thrives. But...I'm also doing it right. The same dog could go to a bad trainer and turn out completely different. So where I'm going with this is...Get a good dog...Spend a LOT of time socializing while creating the proper attitude. Next step is, find a experienced trainer and sponge as much knowlegde you can! And on a side Note...I'm loud, wrestle with my hubby, he will throw me around while playing....And none of my dogs have ever reacted. :) We also have kids running around too! [/quote1314884648] Thank you for the kind words:) I think selecting the right dog is huge, without the right template you can never complete the project. I like the Alano because they are pack animals and also work as livestock guardians in a sense. Knowing that I have 3 cats and a tiny rat dog I have been conscious of what I bring home because I don't want to deal with crating and rotating type of deal. Obviously when we are not home everyone would be crated except the guardian dog so she would have complete access to the house, my only concern is that my cats would also be loose so I don't want to come home to a dead cat. I have left bernie for a couple of hours with my cats and I come home to find him on the same spot on the couch napping lol I really like what you have done with your neos and I remember you telling me that they are not rank driven. It is refreshing to hear that they can withstand you horse playing with your husband and that they dont get involved. HAs Eragon changed at all since he started training? My only concern with a Neo is that I don't want a dog over 100 pounds if I could get my hands on old school throwback runt I would be very interested lol
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                    • Most cats and dogs can live together with out issue. I have two cats as well as a couple birds and a G.pig. My dogs know to leave well enough alone. Only one dog likes to "watch" the cats, Fenice. But at almost 6 has yet to do anything other then put her cold nose on their butts-lol. Depends on the Neo'. But if raised and trained correctly Neo's make awesome companions. The only draw back (imo) is the drool. There are many neo's in small packages, if you decide that my breed would be something your interested in I would be more then happy to refer you to someone who breeds towards a more compact Neo. Also Nothing that was done in Eragons training has changed him. Other then making him a bit more aware of his surroundings. Recently after having a few years of p.p. work, he (over last spring) passed his TDI and CGC. His personality has always been unique to him, and he is just as happy and clown like as Ever. Only now he "sings" to me when I touch his training equipment.
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                      • [quote1314887160=babigirl] Most cats and dogs can live together with out issue. I have two cats as well as a couple birds and a G.pig. My dogs know to leave well enough alone. Only one dog likes to "watch" the cats, Fenice. But at almost 6 has yet to do anything other then put her cold nose on their butts-lol. Depends on the Neo'. But if raised and trained correctly Neo's make awesome companions. The only draw back (imo) is the drool. There are many neo's in small packages, if you decide that my breed would be something your interested in I would be more then happy to refer you to someone who breeds towards a more compact Neo. Also Nothing that was done in Eragons training has changed him. Other then making him a bit more aware of his surroundings. Recently after having a few years of p.p. work, he (over last spring) passed his TDI and CGC. His personality has always been unique to him, and he is just as happy and clown like as Ever. Only now he "sings" to me when I touch his training equipment. [/quote1314887160] That's awesome, I think you are very intellgent person and have excellent leadership skills with your dogs. It would be interesting to analyze the protocol that you utilized to raise your dogs compared to mine. I started off super strict with Bernie and I think I might have ruined his confidence a bit but now that he is becoming an adult I am letting him come out of the shell and he is getting pretty gutsy on certain scenarios. He is still afraid to go in the bathroom lol so I have to carry him in haha. I would def consider a compact neo, let's see if my goals take place within the next few months and I get the house. For now all I can do is read and read some more. There aren't too many shows around here worth going to, plus the hurrican destroyed half my town so I have been slowly getting back into the groove of things :(
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